Use of visual separation in the class a airspace results in a loss of separation.

Attributes
ACN	488840
Time
Date	200010
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : tay.vortac
State Reference	FL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 16000 msl bound upper : 20000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zjx.artcc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737-200
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : vacating altitude
Route In Use	enroute : direct enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zjx.artcc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : vacating altitude
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 12500 flight time type : 1250
ASRS Report	488840
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	488839
Events
Anomaly	inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance
Miss Distance	horizontal : 9000 vertical : 500
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Weather Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error

Narrative:

After receiving a climb clearance from 16000 ft to FL260, while maintaining visual separation on a preceding aircraft, and climbing through FL200, we noted a convergence of our aircraft and the preceding aircraft. In addition, as we approached an upper level cloud deck, we notified center that we may not be able to maintain visual contact. ZJX directed us to turn to heading 350 degrees if contact was lost. We elected to turn to heading 350 degrees immediately in order to ensure separation. During this process, we received a TA followed by an RA to reduce climb. During this RA, visual contact was never lost, climb was reduced, and then resumed following a 'clear of conflict.' center indicated a minimum separation of 1.5 NM when queried. Although ZJX did not indicate a problem, we felt that we had gotten uncomfortably close during this separation maneuver.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: USE OF VISUAL SEPARATION IN THE CLASS A AIRSPACE RESULTS IN A LOSS OF SEPARATION.

Narrative: AFTER RECEIVING A CLB CLRNC FROM 16000 FT TO FL260, WHILE MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION ON A PRECEDING ACFT, AND CLBING THROUGH FL200, WE NOTED A CONVERGENCE OF OUR ACFT AND THE PRECEDING ACFT. IN ADDITION, AS WE APCHED AN UPPER LEVEL CLOUD DECK, WE NOTIFIED CTR THAT WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN VISUAL CONTACT. ZJX DIRECTED US TO TURN TO HDG 350 DEGS IF CONTACT WAS LOST. WE ELECTED TO TURN TO HDG 350 DEGS IMMEDIATELY IN ORDER TO ENSURE SEPARATION. DURING THIS PROCESS, WE RECEIVED A TA FOLLOWED BY AN RA TO REDUCE CLB. DURING THIS RA, VISUAL CONTACT WAS NEVER LOST, CLB WAS REDUCED, AND THEN RESUMED FOLLOWING A 'CLR OF CONFLICT.' CTR INDICATED A MINIMUM SEPARATION OF 1.5 NM WHEN QUERIED. ALTHOUGH ZJX DID NOT INDICATE A PROB, WE FELT THAT WE HAD GOTTEN UNCOMFORTABLY CLOSE DURING THIS SEPARATION MANEUVER.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.