37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 508460 |
Time | |
Date | 200104 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : roc.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : roc.tower tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Jetstream 41 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : position and hold |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : roc.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | landing : go around |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time total : 5400 flight time type : 150 |
ASRS Report | 508460 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : executed go around flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Miss Distance | vertical : 350 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were cleared into 'position and hold.' I replied 'position and hold runway 4.' I did the position and hold checklist. After about 1 min, I asked the captain if I should call the tower because we were still holding and I heard the 'cleared to land runway 4.' he said no, it was for the cherokee. Other traffic was using runway 7 also. After a few mins that seemed like 10 mins, air carrier Y asked if the traffic was on the roll. The tower said 'go around.' I guess about 15-30 seconds later a B727 went by about 200-500 ft and right of our position. We were cleared for takeoff. There was another aircraft cleared to land and about 8 mi out, which made me think there was more time. Another clue was the airline -- they will only use the long runway 4 and they talked about rolling to the end. It should have been obvious they were landing on runway 4. I should have called the tower and let them know we were holding in position on runway 4. After a min or so, there did not seem to be any other traffic reasons not to take off. I thought maybe an IFR release might be why we were holding. An observant air carrier crew and quick reacting controller kept it safe. Good WX was a factor because there was other VFR aircraft in the pattern and operations. As we taxied out, another aircraft was also in position and hold for more than a few moments. I guess this might have given us an impression that it might be a slight delay on the runway. I could not tell how far out the B727 was when they asked if we were rolling and the tower said 'go around.' it probably was a lot further out than it appeared when they flew by.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ROC LCL CTLR CLRS JS41 INTO POS AND HOLD THEN IS REQUIRED TO ISSUE GAR WHEN B727 ON FINAL QUESTIONS ACFT ON RWY INTENT.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED INTO 'POS AND HOLD.' I REPLIED 'POS AND HOLD RWY 4.' I DID THE POS AND HOLD CHKLIST. AFTER ABOUT 1 MIN, I ASKED THE CAPT IF I SHOULD CALL THE TWR BECAUSE WE WERE STILL HOLDING AND I HEARD THE 'CLRED TO LAND RWY 4.' HE SAID NO, IT WAS FOR THE CHEROKEE. OTHER TFC WAS USING RWY 7 ALSO. AFTER A FEW MINS THAT SEEMED LIKE 10 MINS, ACR Y ASKED IF THE TFC WAS ON THE ROLL. THE TWR SAID 'GO AROUND.' I GUESS ABOUT 15-30 SECONDS LATER A B727 WENT BY ABOUT 200-500 FT AND R OF OUR POS. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. THERE WAS ANOTHER ACFT CLRED TO LAND AND ABOUT 8 MI OUT, WHICH MADE ME THINK THERE WAS MORE TIME. ANOTHER CLUE WAS THE AIRLINE -- THEY WILL ONLY USE THE LONG RWY 4 AND THEY TALKED ABOUT ROLLING TO THE END. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS THEY WERE LNDG ON RWY 4. I SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE TWR AND LET THEM KNOW WE WERE HOLDING IN POS ON RWY 4. AFTER A MIN OR SO, THERE DID NOT SEEM TO BE ANY OTHER TFC REASONS NOT TO TAKE OFF. I THOUGHT MAYBE AN IFR RELEASE MIGHT BE WHY WE WERE HOLDING. AN OBSERVANT ACR CREW AND QUICK REACTING CTLR KEPT IT SAFE. GOOD WX WAS A FACTOR BECAUSE THERE WAS OTHER VFR ACFT IN THE PATTERN AND OPS. AS WE TAXIED OUT, ANOTHER ACFT WAS ALSO IN POS AND HOLD FOR MORE THAN A FEW MOMENTS. I GUESS THIS MIGHT HAVE GIVEN US AN IMPRESSION THAT IT MIGHT BE A SLIGHT DELAY ON THE RWY. I COULD NOT TELL HOW FAR OUT THE B727 WAS WHEN THEY ASKED IF WE WERE ROLLING AND THE TWR SAID 'GO AROUND.' IT PROBABLY WAS A LOT FURTHER OUT THAN IT APPEARED WHEN THEY FLEW BY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.