 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
C90 controller challenges B737 flight crew's response to vector heading which the flight crew perceives will take them into adverse WX conditions.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 512667 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200105 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : c90.tracon |
| State Reference | IL |
| Altitude | msl single value : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : c90.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| ASRS Report | 512667 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| ASRS Report | 512668 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Weather ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : c90.tracon |
Narrative:
WX cell painted and confirmed visually on takeoff requested 10-20 degrees right turn to avoid under flight -- denied by departure control. Planned to level off below bottom of cell. Ceiling about 5000 ft. Departure control issued a turn into the WX and climb into the WX -- we refused. Departure control then ridiculed us repeatedly about our refusal and punished us by threatening to leave us at 5000 ft for a long time. It was the most unprofessional comments I have ever heard made by a controller. He expected us to change our decision based on his PIREPS of a smooth ride from other aircraft and not our assessment of the WX from our own perspective. In my judgement, he pressured us to accept an unsafe clearance. His comments to us were unprofessional and created an unsafe environment in-flight. Supplemental information from acn 512668: we both recognized the existence of cells. The ATC controller gave us a heading that the captain did not feel we could accept. I agreed with him. The controller refused to accept the captain's perception of the situation. The controller acted as if he believed that we were trying to keep a heading that would get us on course quicker. That was not the case. The heading we took was away from our course and to avoid WX that was visible to us out the cockpit window as well as in addition he started to laugh on the radio stating that other aircraft had not complained about cells through that area.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C90 CTLR CHALLENGES B737 FLC'S RESPONSE TO VECTOR HDG WHICH THE FLC PERCEIVES WILL TAKE THEM INTO ADVERSE WX CONDITIONS.
Narrative: WX CELL PAINTED AND CONFIRMED VISUALLY ON TKOF REQUESTED 10-20 DEGS R TURN TO AVOID UNDER FLT -- DENIED BY DEP CTL. PLANNED TO LEVEL OFF BELOW BOTTOM OF CELL. CEILING ABOUT 5000 FT. DEP CTL ISSUED A TURN INTO THE WX AND CLB INTO THE WX -- WE REFUSED. DEP CTL THEN RIDICULED US REPEATEDLY ABOUT OUR REFUSAL AND PUNISHED US BY THREATENING TO LEAVE US AT 5000 FT FOR A LONG TIME. IT WAS THE MOST UNPROFESSIONAL COMMENTS I HAVE EVER HEARD MADE BY A CTLR. HE EXPECTED US TO CHANGE OUR DECISION BASED ON HIS PIREPS OF A SMOOTH RIDE FROM OTHER ACFT AND NOT OUR ASSESSMENT OF THE WX FROM OUR OWN PERSPECTIVE. IN MY JUDGEMENT, HE PRESSURED US TO ACCEPT AN UNSAFE CLRNC. HIS COMMENTS TO US WERE UNPROFESSIONAL AND CREATED AN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENT INFLT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 512668: WE BOTH RECOGNIZED THE EXISTENCE OF CELLS. THE ATC CTLR GAVE US A HDG THAT THE CAPT DID NOT FEEL WE COULD ACCEPT. I AGREED WITH HIM. THE CTLR REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE CAPT'S PERCEPTION OF THE SIT. THE CTLR ACTED AS IF HE BELIEVED THAT WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP A HDG THAT WOULD GET US ON COURSE QUICKER. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. THE HDG WE TOOK WAS AWAY FROM OUR COURSE AND TO AVOID WX THAT WAS VISIBLE TO US OUT THE COCKPIT WINDOW AS WELL AS IN ADDITION HE STARTED TO LAUGH ON THE RADIO STATING THAT OTHER ACFT HAD NOT COMPLAINED ABOUT CELLS THROUGH THAT AREA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.