<< >> NASA ASRS Report 512888, May 2001

B767 captain complained to tower local controller that there was not sufficient wake turbulence clearance between his aircraft cleared for takeoff and the preceding B767 that had just departed.

Attributes
ACN	512888
Time
Date	200105
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : lax.tower tracon : day.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	ground : position and hold
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : lax.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	climbout : takeoff climbout : initial
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 138 flight time total : 22400 flight time type : 377
ASRS Report	512888
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable none taken : insufficient time
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Lax tower had cleared a B767 for takeoff on runway 25R and cleared us into position and hold on runway 25R. As they started takeoff, I started clock for wake turbulence separation. 49 seconds later, tower cleared us for an immediate takeoff. Told them we would need at least another 30 seconds for wake separation. Tower then stated we had 'plenty of separation, cleared for immediate takeoff, there is a heavy B747 2 1/2 mi out for that runway.' due to other aircraft blocking exists, there was nowhere to exit/escape from runway so we initiated an immediate takeoff. Subsequently, we heard tower call the lng aircraft at least 3 times and got no response. I consider this an near midair collision even though I do not know how close they came to us. Lots of last min runway changes going on and a B747 was being towed across runway 25R and then down runway 25L and escorted by police.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B767 CAPT COMPLAINED TO TWR LCL CTLR THAT THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT WAKE TURB CLRNC BTWN HIS ACFT CLRED FOR TKOF AND THE PRECEDING B767 THAT HAD JUST DEPARTED.

Narrative: LAX TWR HAD CLRED A B767 FOR TKOF ON RWY 25R AND CLRED US INTO POS AND HOLD ON RWY 25R. AS THEY STARTED TKOF, I STARTED CLOCK FOR WAKE TURB SEPARATION. 49 SECONDS LATER, TWR CLRED US FOR AN IMMEDIATE TKOF. TOLD THEM WE WOULD NEED AT LEAST ANOTHER 30 SECONDS FOR WAKE SEPARATION. TWR THEN STATED WE HAD 'PLENTY OF SEPARATION, CLRED FOR IMMEDIATE TKOF, THERE IS A HVY B747 2 1/2 MI OUT FOR THAT RWY.' DUE TO OTHER ACFT BLOCKING EXISTS, THERE WAS NOWHERE TO EXIT/ESCAPE FROM RWY SO WE INITIATED AN IMMEDIATE TKOF. SUBSEQUENTLY, WE HEARD TWR CALL THE LNG ACFT AT LEAST 3 TIMES AND GOT NO RESPONSE. I CONSIDER THIS AN NMAC EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT KNOW HOW CLOSE THEY CAME TO US. LOTS OF LAST MIN RWY CHANGES GOING ON AND A B747 WAS BEING TOWED ACROSS RWY 25R AND THEN DOWN RWY 25L AND ESCORTED BY POLICE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.