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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 516759 |
Time | |
Date | 200107 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zid.artcc |
State Reference | IN |
Altitude | msl single value : 28000 |
Environment | |
Weather Elements | Thunderstorm |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid.artcc artcc : zfw.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 516759 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : company policies non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were flight planned lga J6 airway to lit-dal at FL280. We had WX (thunderstorms) between perks and yocky intxns on J6. We asked ZID for a WX deviation left of course (J6). ZID said 'cleared to deviate left of course, go direct to lit when able.' I read back the clearance. After about 10-15 mins of circumnaving the WX about 13-25 NM left (south of course), ZID asked when we could go to lit. I said in a couple of mins, that we had one more turn around the WX. The thunderstorms were scattered in this cluster, and the thunderstorms were separated about 20 NM apart with tops at about FL300. The thunderstorms were not severe. ZID then asked if we had turned right of course. I said no, we were still 20 NM left (south) of J6. We turned left to circumnav WX that we would have to turn right to go direct to lit. ZID then said that we had turned right of course without permission. I came back and said that we had never crossed right of the previous course. I said we had stayed at least 13 NM left of course and that we were now clear of the WX and ready to go direct to lit. ZID again called back to say that we had not followed his clearance. I said that all of our instruments showed that we had not crossed J6 and that we stayed within 13-25 NM left of course as per our clearance to deviate for WX. The controller got into a lengthy discussion about this clearance. I asked if there were any other aircraft around us. ZID said that there were no other aircraft around us. I do not know what the controller was thinking, but we had clearance to deviate left of course J6 for WX avoidance. If this is not proper procedure in following this clearance, then I believe most pilots out there do not understand this type of FAA clearance for WX avoidance. I believe that this is a problem that needs to be addressed by union and airline.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ZID CTLR CHALLENGES F100 FLC ABOUT WX DEV.
Narrative: WE WERE FLT PLANNED LGA J6 AIRWAY TO LIT-DAL AT FL280. WE HAD WX (TSTMS) BTWN PERKS AND YOCKY INTXNS ON J6. WE ASKED ZID FOR A WX DEV L OF COURSE (J6). ZID SAID 'CLRED TO DEVIATE L OF COURSE, GO DIRECT TO LIT WHEN ABLE.' I READ BACK THE CLRNC. AFTER ABOUT 10-15 MINS OF CIRCUMNAVING THE WX ABOUT 13-25 NM L (S OF COURSE), ZID ASKED WHEN WE COULD GO TO LIT. I SAID IN A COUPLE OF MINS, THAT WE HAD ONE MORE TURN AROUND THE WX. THE TSTMS WERE SCATTERED IN THIS CLUSTER, AND THE TSTMS WERE SEPARATED ABOUT 20 NM APART WITH TOPS AT ABOUT FL300. THE TSTMS WERE NOT SEVERE. ZID THEN ASKED IF WE HAD TURNED R OF COURSE. I SAID NO, WE WERE STILL 20 NM L (S) OF J6. WE TURNED L TO CIRCUMNAV WX THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO TURN R TO GO DIRECT TO LIT. ZID THEN SAID THAT WE HAD TURNED R OF COURSE WITHOUT PERMISSION. I CAME BACK AND SAID THAT WE HAD NEVER CROSSED R OF THE PREVIOUS COURSE. I SAID WE HAD STAYED AT LEAST 13 NM L OF COURSE AND THAT WE WERE NOW CLR OF THE WX AND READY TO GO DIRECT TO LIT. ZID AGAIN CALLED BACK TO SAY THAT WE HAD NOT FOLLOWED HIS CLRNC. I SAID THAT ALL OF OUR INSTS SHOWED THAT WE HAD NOT CROSSED J6 AND THAT WE STAYED WITHIN 13-25 NM L OF COURSE AS PER OUR CLRNC TO DEVIATE FOR WX. THE CTLR GOT INTO A LENGTHY DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS CLRNC. I ASKED IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER ACFT AROUND US. ZID SAID THAT THERE WERE NO OTHER ACFT AROUND US. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE CTLR WAS THINKING, BUT WE HAD CLRNC TO DEVIATE L OF COURSE J6 FOR WX AVOIDANCE. IF THIS IS NOT PROPER PROC IN FOLLOWING THIS CLRNC, THEN I BELIEVE MOST PLTS OUT THERE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS TYPE OF FAA CLRNC FOR WX AVOIDANCE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A PROB THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BY UNION AND AIRLINE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.