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Attributes | |
ACN | 523149 |
Time | |
Date | 200108 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mry.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : mry.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Make Model Name | PA-28 Cherokee Arrow IV |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer only : 28l other vortac |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument non precision arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | instruction : instructor |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 260 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 523149 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : private |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Aircraft was on round-robin IFR training flight. Occupants: private pilot IFR student, cfii (submitter) and high time IFR rated observer. Aircraft reported missed approach at wvi. Received instructions to fly 'published missed approach, except climb and maintain 5000 ft.' approximately 2 DME from sns VORTAC, we had received no further communication from approach control. I asked if we should enter holding at sns as published, or what. The controller instructed us to 'depart sns VOR heading 150 degrees.' this was read back. A few mins later, we were instructed to 'turn right to 170 degrees.' this, too, was read back. There was a considerable period of silence. As we were nearing intercept of the runway 28L localizer (i-mtb), I asked for a radio check. The controller responded 'loud and clear.' I then stated 'sir, it looks like we're crossing the localizer.' by now, we were in fact across the localizer, heading 170 degrees, at or below MVA, heading toward high terrain. The controller responded 'turn left to 250 degrees, intercept the localizer, maintain 5000 ft till established, cleared for localizer DME runway 28L approach.' with a final inbound course of 278 degrees, being south of the localizer, heading toward high terrain, I turned right (shortest distance away from terrain) to intercept a localizer needle that was about 2 degrees right. Intercept occurred and approach was executed without further incident except the controller came up on the radio and angrily stated 'I told you to turn left, you turned right. That's a pilot deviation. Next time, do what I tell you or I'll have you call up and we'll take follow-up action.' I did not feel under the circumstances -- at or below MVA, south of localizer, heading 170 degrees -- that I had time to discuss the matter further. I did call tower, on my own initiative, to see how I may have better handled the situation. The person I talked to told me that: I could have questioned the instructions further. As stated, didn't think vector, altitude and terrain were conducive to lengthy discussion of the matter. Or ask for higher -- perhaps -- however, when south of course (278 degrees) and assigned vector of 250 degrees for intercept, it just won't work. Wind from northwest. Another concern: when in IMC and experiencing the 'uncertainties' outlined here, the last thing the pilot needs to hear is a radio threat of enforcement action -- it just unnecessarily adds to the anxiety already present. If there is a need for such dialogue, let the aircraft land, ask for a call to tower, have a meeting/discussion.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PA28 TRAINING FLC CHALLENGED BY MRY CTLR ABOUT TURN DIRECTION AS PLT PERCEIVES VECTOR WILL TAKE HIM FURTHER INTO HIGHER TERRAIN.
Narrative: ACFT WAS ON ROUND-ROBIN IFR TRAINING FLT. OCCUPANTS: PVT PLT IFR STUDENT, CFII (SUBMITTER) AND HIGH TIME IFR RATED OBSERVER. ACFT RPTED MISSED APCH AT WVI. RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS TO FLY 'PUBLISHED MISSED APCH, EXCEPT CLB AND MAINTAIN 5000 FT.' APPROX 2 DME FROM SNS VORTAC, WE HAD RECEIVED NO FURTHER COM FROM APCH CTL. I ASKED IF WE SHOULD ENTER HOLDING AT SNS AS PUBLISHED, OR WHAT. THE CTLR INSTRUCTED US TO 'DEPART SNS VOR HDG 150 DEGS.' THIS WAS READ BACK. A FEW MINS LATER, WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO 'TURN R TO 170 DEGS.' THIS, TOO, WAS READ BACK. THERE WAS A CONSIDERABLE PERIOD OF SILENCE. AS WE WERE NEARING INTERCEPT OF THE RWY 28L LOC (I-MTB), I ASKED FOR A RADIO CHK. THE CTLR RESPONDED 'LOUD AND CLR.' I THEN STATED 'SIR, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE XING THE LOC.' BY NOW, WE WERE IN FACT ACROSS THE LOC, HDG 170 DEGS, AT OR BELOW MVA, HDG TOWARD HIGH TERRAIN. THE CTLR RESPONDED 'TURN L TO 250 DEGS, INTERCEPT THE LOC, MAINTAIN 5000 FT TILL ESTABLISHED, CLRED FOR LOC DME RWY 28L APCH.' WITH A FINAL INBOUND COURSE OF 278 DEGS, BEING S OF THE LOC, HDG TOWARD HIGH TERRAIN, I TURNED R (SHORTEST DISTANCE AWAY FROM TERRAIN) TO INTERCEPT A LOC NEEDLE THAT WAS ABOUT 2 DEGS R. INTERCEPT OCCURRED AND APCH WAS EXECUTED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT EXCEPT THE CTLR CAME UP ON THE RADIO AND ANGRILY STATED 'I TOLD YOU TO TURN L, YOU TURNED R. THAT'S A PLTDEV. NEXT TIME, DO WHAT I TELL YOU OR I'LL HAVE YOU CALL UP AND WE'LL TAKE FOLLOW-UP ACTION.' I DID NOT FEEL UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES -- AT OR BELOW MVA, S OF LOC, HDG 170 DEGS -- THAT I HAD TIME TO DISCUSS THE MATTER FURTHER. I DID CALL TWR, ON MY OWN INITIATIVE, TO SEE HOW I MAY HAVE BETTER HANDLED THE SIT. THE PERSON I TALKED TO TOLD ME THAT: I COULD HAVE QUESTIONED THE INSTRUCTIONS FURTHER. AS STATED, DIDN'T THINK VECTOR, ALT AND TERRAIN WERE CONDUCIVE TO LENGTHY DISCUSSION OF THE MATTER. OR ASK FOR HIGHER -- PERHAPS -- HOWEVER, WHEN S OF COURSE (278 DEGS) AND ASSIGNED VECTOR OF 250 DEGS FOR INTERCEPT, IT JUST WON'T WORK. WIND FROM NW. ANOTHER CONCERN: WHEN IN IMC AND EXPERIENCING THE 'UNCERTAINTIES' OUTLINED HERE, THE LAST THING THE PLT NEEDS TO HEAR IS A RADIO THREAT OF ENFORCEMENT ACTION -- IT JUST UNNECESSARILY ADDS TO THE ANXIETY ALREADY PRESENT. IF THERE IS A NEED FOR SUCH DIALOGUE, LET THE ACFT LAND, ASK FOR A CALL TO TWR, HAVE A MEETING/DISCUSSION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.