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A320 flight crew complain about their many lax SID arrival changes that caused them to overshoot their final course and then have a TCASII RA on a VFR traffic 2500 ft below due to their high rate of descent in order to make a lower altitude restr.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 539543 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200203 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : bremr |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8500 msl bound upper : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : civet |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Flight Plan | VFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 24000 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 539543 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On arrival lax, originally given civet arrival, were programmed and descending per arrival with programmed FMS and managed descent. Outside bremr, told to stop descent at 15000 ft and slow to 180 KTS, then given right turn of approximately 30 degrees (shortly thereafter given direct bremr and assume the arrival). Rushed (direct) bremr on FMS and aircraft began turn to bremr trying to slow to 180 KTS and descend to cross bremr at 12000 ft. However, we were so close to bremr that aircraft could not get back on course before going over 90 degree intercept just to get to bremr. All of this just within few mi of bremr trying to slow to 180 KTS, get down and do 90 degree intercept final, took aircraft off direct bremr because just was not going to work and put aircraft in heading mode and started left turn to arnes. Aircraft was never going to make bremr and we were descending at high rate of descent just to make crossing altitude. Went through arrival course trying to recover from 90 degree intercept and get established to arnes, then we got RA from VFR traffic because of high rate of descent and controller wants to know if we are direct arnes. We said yes and he said it was VFR traffic and was stopping at 8500 ft. This is what our arrival looked like.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A320 FLC COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR MANY LAX SID ARR CHANGES THAT CAUSED THEM TO OVERSHOOT THEIR FINAL COURSE AND THEN HAVE A TCASII RA ON A VFR TFC 2500 FT BELOW DUE TO THEIR HIGH RATE OF DSCNT IN ORDER TO MAKE A LOWER ALT RESTR.
Narrative: ON ARR LAX, ORIGINALLY GIVEN CIVET ARR, WERE PROGRAMMED AND DSNDING PER ARR WITH PROGRAMMED FMS AND MANAGED DSCNT. OUTSIDE BREMR, TOLD TO STOP DSCNT AT 15000 FT AND SLOW TO 180 KTS, THEN GIVEN R TURN OF APPROX 30 DEGS (SHORTLY THEREAFTER GIVEN DIRECT BREMR AND ASSUME THE ARR). RUSHED (DIRECT) BREMR ON FMS AND ACFT BEGAN TURN TO BREMR TRYING TO SLOW TO 180 KTS AND DSND TO CROSS BREMR AT 12000 FT. HOWEVER, WE WERE SO CLOSE TO BREMR THAT ACFT COULD NOT GET BACK ON COURSE BEFORE GOING OVER 90 DEG INTERCEPT JUST TO GET TO BREMR. ALL OF THIS JUST WITHIN FEW MI OF BREMR TRYING TO SLOW TO 180 KTS, GET DOWN AND DO 90 DEG INTERCEPT FINAL, TOOK ACFT OFF DIRECT BREMR BECAUSE JUST WAS NOT GOING TO WORK AND PUT ACFT IN HDG MODE AND STARTED L TURN TO ARNES. ACFT WAS NEVER GOING TO MAKE BREMR AND WE WERE DSNDING AT HIGH RATE OF DSCNT JUST TO MAKE XING ALT. WENT THROUGH ARR COURSE TRYING TO RECOVER FROM 90 DEG INTERCEPT AND GET ESTABLISHED TO ARNES, THEN WE GOT RA FROM VFR TFC BECAUSE OF HIGH RATE OF DSCNT AND CTLR WANTS TO KNOW IF WE ARE DIRECT ARNES. WE SAID YES AND HE SAID IT WAS VFR TFC AND WAS STOPPING AT 8500 FT. THIS IS WHAT OUR ARR LOOKED LIKE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.