 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
A B737 crew, descending into las, questions ATC's authority/authorized to issue a 'descend via the arrival' clearance, when not on the arrival.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 539550 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200203 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : bce.vortac |
| State Reference | UT |
| Altitude | msl single value : 28000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-700 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival : on vectors arrival star : ksino |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 4200 |
| ASRS Report | 539550 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were cruising at FL330 on a vector direct bce for the luxor one RNAV arrival to las. Prior to bce center cleared us to descend to FL280 and direct ksino. Prior to reaching FL280 center cleared us to 'descend via the ksino one arrival.' I asked center for lower and were cleared to FL230 and then to 'descend via the ksino one arrival, cross luxor at 12000 ft/250 KTS.' I asked the controller how he could clear us to descend out of FL280 to 'descend via the arrival' when we weren't on the arrival. He said they had looked into it and could issue this clearance when we were cleared to a point on the arrival (ksino). The lowest MEA on the published arrival closest to our position (we were on a vector) is 14800 ft. I felt that the clearance was somewhat confusing as did the first officer, because we were so far out from ksino when the controller cleared us to descend, and because FL230 left us high on the profile.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737 CREW, DSNDING INTO LAS, QUESTIONS ATC'S AUTH TO ISSUE A 'DSND VIA THE ARR' CLRNC, WHEN NOT ON THE ARR.
Narrative: WE WERE CRUISING AT FL330 ON A VECTOR DIRECT BCE FOR THE LUXOR ONE RNAV ARR TO LAS. PRIOR TO BCE CTR CLRED US TO DSND TO FL280 AND DIRECT KSINO. PRIOR TO REACHING FL280 CTR CLRED US TO 'DSND VIA THE KSINO ONE ARR.' I ASKED CTR FOR LOWER AND WERE CLRED TO FL230 AND THEN TO 'DSND VIA THE KSINO ONE ARR, CROSS LUXOR AT 12000 FT/250 KTS.' I ASKED THE CTLR HOW HE COULD CLR US TO DSND OUT OF FL280 TO 'DSND VIA THE ARR' WHEN WE WEREN'T ON THE ARR. HE SAID THEY HAD LOOKED INTO IT AND COULD ISSUE THIS CLRNC WHEN WE WERE CLRED TO A POINT ON THE ARR (KSINO). THE LOWEST MEA ON THE PUBLISHED ARR CLOSEST TO OUR POS (WE WERE ON A VECTOR) IS 14800 FT. I FELT THAT THE CLRNC WAS SOMEWHAT CONFUSING AS DID THE FO, BECAUSE WE WERE SO FAR OUT FROM KSINO WHEN THE CTLR CLRED US TO DSND, AND BECAUSE FL230 LEFT US HIGH ON THE PROFILE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.