B717 crew had less than legal separation in orf class east airspace.

Attributes
ACN	543610
Time
Date	200204
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : ccv.vortac
State Reference	VA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 11500 msl bound upper : 12000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : orf.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B717 (Formerly MD-95)
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : intermediate altitude
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : orf.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	cruise : level
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 8100 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	543610
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other
Independent Detector	atc equipment other atc equipment : radar aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact
Miss Distance	horizontal : 15000 vertical : 500
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error

Narrative:

I was the PF on a part 121 passenger flight from lga to phf (newport news, va). At around FL290 (cruise) the norfolk approach controller advised us to cross 10 mi north of ccv VOR at 10000 ft. We programmed this into FMS, and a few mins later were advised to begin descent. Shortly afterwards, the controller vectored us off course to a heading of around 230 degrees. Then she said to disregard crossing restr, cleared us back to ccv, and 'give me a good rate.' I pulled the speed brake, and we were descending at around 3600 FPM going through 12000 ft when she said to stop and hold a new altitude of 12000 ft. Our kinetic energy carried us to around 11500 ft and as we climbed back up to 12000 ft, we got a TCASII alert (once, not an RA) and saw some type of aircraft pass off our left at a distance of around 3 mi. Flight continued to phf without incident. In conclusion, you cannot stop a 100000 pound jet descending at a high rate in 100 ft. Perhaps remaining on off course vector a while longer would have averted this.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B717 CREW HAD LESS THAN LEGAL SEPARATION IN ORF CLASS E AIRSPACE.

Narrative: I WAS THE PF ON A PART 121 PAX FLT FROM LGA TO PHF (NEWPORT NEWS, VA). AT AROUND FL290 (CRUISE) THE NORFOLK APCH CTLR ADVISED US TO CROSS 10 MI N OF CCV VOR AT 10000 FT. WE PROGRAMMED THIS INTO FMS, AND A FEW MINS LATER WERE ADVISED TO BEGIN DSCNT. SHORTLY AFTERWARDS, THE CTLR VECTORED US OFF COURSE TO A HDG OF AROUND 230 DEGS. THEN SHE SAID TO DISREGARD XING RESTR, CLRED US BACK TO CCV, AND 'GIVE ME A GOOD RATE.' I PULLED THE SPD BRAKE, AND WE WERE DSNDING AT AROUND 3600 FPM GOING THROUGH 12000 FT WHEN SHE SAID TO STOP AND HOLD A NEW ALT OF 12000 FT. OUR KINETIC ENERGY CARRIED US TO AROUND 11500 FT AND AS WE CLBED BACK UP TO 12000 FT, WE GOT A TCASII ALERT (ONCE, NOT AN RA) AND SAW SOME TYPE OF ACFT PASS OFF OUR L AT A DISTANCE OF AROUND 3 MI. FLT CONTINUED TO PHF WITHOUT INCIDENT. IN CONCLUSION, YOU CANNOT STOP A 100000 LB JET DSNDING AT A HIGH RATE IN 100 FT. PERHAPS REMAINING ON OFF COURSE VECTOR A WHILE LONGER WOULD HAVE AVERTED THIS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.