Narrative:

We were filed via the mahem 1 RNAV arrival into phx which is a routing that neither the captain nor I had previously flown. Shortly before reaching mahem, I commented to the captain that we had not yet been told which runway to expect. He immediately queried the controller who rather snidely asked 'do you have the current information for phoenix?' we stated that we had taxiway F. All he said was 'roger.' since the ATIS always says 'arrs from the north, expect runway 26,' and since depicted as the default for the mahem, I programmed the FMC for runway 26 arrival despite the fact that the mahem arrival clearly indicates that it can be used for arrs to runways 26, 25R or 25L and we are often offered the south side. Just prior to point duwop, we were switched to the final controller who asked which side we wanted. We responded 'south side,' and the controller told us to expect runway 25L. Since we were still cleared via the mahem, I began programming the FMC for runway 25L in order to ensure that we would be following the correct routing. As we crossed duwop, the captain asked 'do you have LNAV selected? We need to turn.' when I looked at the control panel, I found that the LNAV had disengaged or kicked off, and we were in control wheel steering. Since neither the captain nor I had disengaged LNAV, I can only assume that when I reprogrammed for runway 25L, it kicked off. Having never received any formal training on RNAV arrs, I am not sure if this is normal or not. I immediately selected heading mode, and initiated a turn back to course. While in the turn, ATC gave us a 080 degree vector, and asked us to write down a phone number to contact them on the ground for a possible pilot deviation. The captain responded that we would get the phone number once we were on the ground, rather than during a busy approach. Upon parking at the gate, the captain called ATC while I stood nearby. Among other things, we learned that ATC never uses the routing for each specific runway. They always vector you once you make the turn to the east on the mahem. All of this leads me to several questions: 1) why have the ability on the arrival to go to 3 different runways if they are never going to be used? 2) why have an RNAV arrival at all, if you are going to be given vectors no matter what. 3) why does the ATIS say expect the north side when the arrival allows for both north and south operations? 4) if ATC changes the runway, and I reprogram the FMC, is it normal for the LNAV to disengage on an RNAV arrival (once beyond a certain point on the arrival)? 5) why didn't the controller not simply say '26' or 25L' instead of rudely implying that we were idiots? Suggestions: 1) change the arrival to a common point for all runways (at least for east or west flow). 2) continue to publish NAVAID frequency, radial, and DME information on the RNAV arrs and departures (it is easier to spot a deviation on the HSI than in map mode in this aircraft). 3) change or eliminate a portion of the ATIS if it is going to conflict with the arrival. 4) instruct controllers to give more useful information in a timelier manner. 5) give us some real classroom training on the FMC, LNAV, and RNAV arrs and departures. Supplemental information from acn 549650: I do not know when or why the LNAV kicked off, I was looking outside mainly because we were in the terminal area. Formal training in the FMC might tell me when LNAV disengages to cws during programming. I do not like and will not accept RNAV arrs into the phx area, when it is necessary to reprogram the FMC when the arrival runway is changed so close in. The fixes after lehi for west landing must go to a central fix or an 'expect rv' before I fly any RNAV arrival into phx again. This applies to all phx stars. I do not like not being able to monitor the PF with raw data on these approachs. I was looking right at the map display and the aircraft was on top of duwop and until it had passed it, I had no way (no DME) to know the aircraft had not turned properly. It is also not the answer to always make us land on the north side if coming from the north and vice versa. Get rid of the fixes after lehi and this would have never happened.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC QUESTION P50 CTLR FOR RWY ASSIGNMENT FLYING THE NEW PHX RNAV APCH WHILE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND STAR PROCS AND WHY LNAV DISCONNECTED.

Narrative: WE WERE FILED VIA THE MAHEM 1 RNAV ARR INTO PHX WHICH IS A ROUTING THAT NEITHER THE CAPT NOR I HAD PREVIOUSLY FLOWN. SHORTLY BEFORE REACHING MAHEM, I COMMENTED TO THE CAPT THAT WE HAD NOT YET BEEN TOLD WHICH RWY TO EXPECT. HE IMMEDIATELY QUERIED THE CTLR WHO RATHER SNIDELY ASKED 'DO YOU HAVE THE CURRENT INFO FOR PHOENIX?' WE STATED THAT WE HAD TXWY F. ALL HE SAID WAS 'ROGER.' SINCE THE ATIS ALWAYS SAYS 'ARRS FROM THE N, EXPECT RWY 26,' AND SINCE DEPICTED AS THE DEFAULT FOR THE MAHEM, I PROGRAMMED THE FMC FOR RWY 26 ARR DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE MAHEM ARR CLRLY INDICATES THAT IT CAN BE USED FOR ARRS TO RWYS 26, 25R OR 25L AND WE ARE OFTEN OFFERED THE S SIDE. JUST PRIOR TO POINT DUWOP, WE WERE SWITCHED TO THE FINAL CTLR WHO ASKED WHICH SIDE WE WANTED. WE RESPONDED 'S SIDE,' AND THE CTLR TOLD US TO EXPECT RWY 25L. SINCE WE WERE STILL CLRED VIA THE MAHEM, I BEGAN PROGRAMMING THE FMC FOR RWY 25L IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT WE WOULD BE FOLLOWING THE CORRECT ROUTING. AS WE CROSSED DUWOP, THE CAPT ASKED 'DO YOU HAVE LNAV SELECTED? WE NEED TO TURN.' WHEN I LOOKED AT THE CTL PANEL, I FOUND THAT THE LNAV HAD DISENGAGED OR KICKED OFF, AND WE WERE IN CTL WHEEL STEERING. SINCE NEITHER THE CAPT NOR I HAD DISENGAGED LNAV, I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT WHEN I REPROGRAMMED FOR RWY 25L, IT KICKED OFF. HAVING NEVER RECEIVED ANY FORMAL TRAINING ON RNAV ARRS, I AM NOT SURE IF THIS IS NORMAL OR NOT. I IMMEDIATELY SELECTED HEADING MODE, AND INITIATED A TURN BACK TO COURSE. WHILE IN THE TURN, ATC GAVE US A 080 DEG VECTOR, AND ASKED US TO WRITE DOWN A PHONE NUMBER TO CONTACT THEM ON THE GND FOR A POSSIBLE PLTDEV. THE CAPT RESPONDED THAT WE WOULD GET THE PHONE NUMBER ONCE WE WERE ON THE GND, RATHER THAN DURING A BUSY APCH. UPON PARKING AT THE GATE, THE CAPT CALLED ATC WHILE I STOOD NEARBY. AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE LEARNED THAT ATC NEVER USES THE ROUTING FOR EACH SPECIFIC RWY. THEY ALWAYS VECTOR YOU ONCE YOU MAKE THE TURN TO THE E ON THE MAHEM. ALL OF THIS LEADS ME TO SEVERAL QUESTIONS: 1) WHY HAVE THE ABILITY ON THE ARR TO GO TO 3 DIFFERENT RWYS IF THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO BE USED? 2) WHY HAVE AN RNAV ARR AT ALL, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE GIVEN VECTORS NO MATTER WHAT. 3) WHY DOES THE ATIS SAY EXPECT THE N SIDE WHEN THE ARR ALLOWS FOR BOTH N AND S OPS? 4) IF ATC CHANGES THE RWY, AND I REPROGRAM THE FMC, IS IT NORMAL FOR THE LNAV TO DISENGAGE ON AN RNAV ARR (ONCE BEYOND A CERTAIN POINT ON THE ARR)? 5) WHY DIDN'T THE CTLR NOT SIMPLY SAY '26' OR 25L' INSTEAD OF RUDELY IMPLYING THAT WE WERE IDIOTS? SUGGESTIONS: 1) CHANGE THE ARR TO A COMMON POINT FOR ALL RWYS (AT LEAST FOR E OR W FLOW). 2) CONTINUE TO PUBLISH NAVAID FREQ, RADIAL, AND DME INFO ON THE RNAV ARRS AND DEPS (IT IS EASIER TO SPOT A DEV ON THE HSI THAN IN MAP MODE IN THIS ACFT). 3) CHANGE OR ELIMINATE A PORTION OF THE ATIS IF IT IS GOING TO CONFLICT WITH THE ARR. 4) INSTRUCT CTLRS TO GIVE MORE USEFUL INFO IN A TIMELIER MANNER. 5) GIVE US SOME REAL CLASSROOM TRAINING ON THE FMC, LNAV, AND RNAV ARRS AND DEPS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 549650: I DO NOT KNOW WHEN OR WHY THE LNAV KICKED OFF, I WAS LOOKING OUTSIDE MAINLY BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE TERMINAL AREA. FORMAL TRAINING IN THE FMC MIGHT TELL ME WHEN LNAV DISENGAGES TO CWS DURING PROGRAMMING. I DO NOT LIKE AND WILL NOT ACCEPT RNAV ARRS INTO THE PHX AREA, WHEN IT IS NECESSARY TO REPROGRAM THE FMC WHEN THE ARR RWY IS CHANGED SO CLOSE IN. THE FIXES AFTER LEHI FOR W LNDG MUST GO TO A CENTRAL FIX OR AN 'EXPECT RV' BEFORE I FLY ANY RNAV ARR INTO PHX AGAIN. THIS APPLIES TO ALL PHX STARS. I DO NOT LIKE NOT BEING ABLE TO MONITOR THE PF WITH RAW DATA ON THESE APCHS. I WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT THE MAP DISPLAY AND THE ACFT WAS ON TOP OF DUWOP AND UNTIL IT HAD PASSED IT, I HAD NO WAY (NO DME) TO KNOW THE ACFT HAD NOT TURNED PROPERLY. IT IS ALSO NOT THE ANSWER TO ALWAYS MAKE US LAND ON THE N SIDE IF COMING FROM THE N AND VICE VERSA. GET RID OF THE FIXES AFTER LEHI AND THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.