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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 557742 |
Time | |
Date | 200208 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mco.airport |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : mco.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A321 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : missed approach landing : go around |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : mco.tower |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 557742 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance other anomaly other anomaly other anomaly other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : overrode automation flight crew : regained aircraft control flight crew : returned to assigned altitude flight crew : overcame equipment problem |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Aircraft Airspace Structure Company Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : mco.tracon |
Narrative:
We were in an airbus 321 approaching mco from the north. The FMS was programmed and pilots briefed for an ILS runway 18R. After responding to a TCASII RA to 'climb' while on radar vectors with approach control (about 20 NM northeast mco) we cleared that aircraft by 2-3 mi and 600 ft. We were cleared direct to orl VOR (which isn't part of the NAVAID/fix string leading to ILS runway 18R). Somewhere around 12-15 NM northeast of mco, we reported 'airport in sight' and were cleared for the visual approach to runway 18L, but to also cross executive airport at or above 2500 ft. The 'approach' push button wasn't pressed because the navigation system was set up for runway 18R ILS, yet we were cleared for approach to runway 18L which doesn't have an ILS. The clearance to cross executive airport at 2500 ft put us about 300 ft high above glide path. We also had a 15-20 KT quartering tailwind from about 050 degrees. The commanding officer disconnected the autoplt and both flight directors and commanded gear down and flaps 3 degrees. By 1800 ft on descent, we realized that we weren't going to be able to make a normal approach and landing. We asked for a 360 degree turn but that was denied, while they would approve s-turns. We rejected that suggestion as being inadequate for our situation where we were getting progressively higher from the ideal as we tried to slow to the next flap speed. Speed brakes were extended. We advised tower that we were going around. They told us to maintain 2000 ft and runway heading. They said we had wbound traffic at 9 O'clock, 3000 ft (and about 4 mi away). It was a cherokee. In the meantime, the commanding officer applied full power and called for gear up and go around flaps. With only a few hundred ft to climb, the airplane vaulted to and through 2000 ft followed by flap overspd as the commanding officer pitched down. I alerted him to the altitude, as did ATC, and he finally reduced the power to 'climb' but we had ballooned up to about 2500 ft. We finally got re-established at 2000 ft but 'it wasn't pretty.' the event was set up by a combination of things: ATC's restr that kept us high for too long, a tailwind which made us fast, vectors that sent us to a fix that wasn't part of the approach (which then precluded us from engaging full automation to intercept the approach), expectation for an ILS runway 18R which was changed to visual runway 18L, company procedures that dictate full use of automation except when absolutely necessary and the go around procedure that requires us to advance the power fully to toga (maximum) for all GA's, independent of altitude before allowing us to reduce to a still pwrful climb setting. Another problem feature of the airbus system is that the PNF can't add nose-down pressure to help in this type of overshoot -- that would result in additive pitch-down commands from both sticks. The use of the 'takeover push button' is still somewhat extreme, even in the current state of cockpit diplomacy being 'open.' I could envision a somewhat ugly scene in 'fighting' for the upper hand of aircraft control with this particular captain. I was looking for the traffic visually but hadn't seen him, while noting his position on TCASII, somewhere outside of 3 mi and about our 8 O'clock position. We were not in a dangerous position, just messy and sloppy, and embarrassing.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALT BUST AND A POTENTIAL CONFLICT BY THE FLC OF AN A321 AFTER A DESTABILIZED APCH AND GAR USING TOGO PWR AT MCO, FL.
Narrative: WE WERE IN AN AIRBUS 321 APCHING MCO FROM THE N. THE FMS WAS PROGRAMMED AND PLTS BRIEFED FOR AN ILS RWY 18R. AFTER RESPONDING TO A TCASII RA TO 'CLB' WHILE ON RADAR VECTORS WITH APCH CTL (ABOUT 20 NM NE MCO) WE CLRED THAT ACFT BY 2-3 MI AND 600 FT. WE WERE CLRED DIRECT TO ORL VOR (WHICH ISN'T PART OF THE NAVAID/FIX STRING LEADING TO ILS RWY 18R). SOMEWHERE AROUND 12-15 NM NE OF MCO, WE RPTED 'ARPT IN SIGHT' AND WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL APCH TO RWY 18L, BUT TO ALSO CROSS EXECUTIVE ARPT AT OR ABOVE 2500 FT. THE 'APCH' PUSH BUTTON WASN'T PRESSED BECAUSE THE NAV SYS WAS SET UP FOR RWY 18R ILS, YET WE WERE CLRED FOR APCH TO RWY 18L WHICH DOESN'T HAVE AN ILS. THE CLRNC TO CROSS EXECUTIVE ARPT AT 2500 FT PUT US ABOUT 300 FT HIGH ABOVE GLIDE PATH. WE ALSO HAD A 15-20 KT QUARTERING TAILWIND FROM ABOUT 050 DEGS. THE COMMANDING OFFICER DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT AND BOTH FLT DIRECTORS AND COMMANDED GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS 3 DEGS. BY 1800 FT ON DSCNT, WE REALIZED THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A NORMAL APCH AND LNDG. WE ASKED FOR A 360 DEG TURN BUT THAT WAS DENIED, WHILE THEY WOULD APPROVE S-TURNS. WE REJECTED THAT SUGGESTION AS BEING INADEQUATE FOR OUR SIT WHERE WE WERE GETTING PROGRESSIVELY HIGHER FROM THE IDEAL AS WE TRIED TO SLOW TO THE NEXT FLAP SPD. SPD BRAKES WERE EXTENDED. WE ADVISED TWR THAT WE WERE GOING AROUND. THEY TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 2000 FT AND RWY HDG. THEY SAID WE HAD WBOUND TFC AT 9 O'CLOCK, 3000 FT (AND ABOUT 4 MI AWAY). IT WAS A CHEROKEE. IN THE MEANTIME, THE COMMANDING OFFICER APPLIED FULL PWR AND CALLED FOR GEAR UP AND GAR FLAPS. WITH ONLY A FEW HUNDRED FT TO CLB, THE AIRPLANE VAULTED TO AND THROUGH 2000 FT FOLLOWED BY FLAP OVERSPD AS THE COMMANDING OFFICER PITCHED DOWN. I ALERTED HIM TO THE ALT, AS DID ATC, AND HE FINALLY REDUCED THE PWR TO 'CLB' BUT WE HAD BALLOONED UP TO ABOUT 2500 FT. WE FINALLY GOT RE-ESTABLISHED AT 2000 FT BUT 'IT WASN'T PRETTY.' THE EVENT WAS SET UP BY A COMBINATION OF THINGS: ATC'S RESTR THAT KEPT US HIGH FOR TOO LONG, A TAILWIND WHICH MADE US FAST, VECTORS THAT SENT US TO A FIX THAT WASN'T PART OF THE APCH (WHICH THEN PRECLUDED US FROM ENGAGING FULL AUTOMATION TO INTERCEPT THE APCH), EXPECTATION FOR AN ILS RWY 18R WHICH WAS CHANGED TO VISUAL RWY 18L, COMPANY PROCS THAT DICTATE FULL USE OF AUTOMATION EXCEPT WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY AND THE GAR PROC THAT REQUIRES US TO ADVANCE THE PWR FULLY TO TOGA (MAX) FOR ALL GA'S, INDEPENDENT OF ALT BEFORE ALLOWING US TO REDUCE TO A STILL PWRFUL CLB SETTING. ANOTHER PROB FEATURE OF THE AIRBUS SYS IS THAT THE PNF CAN'T ADD NOSE-DOWN PRESSURE TO HELP IN THIS TYPE OF OVERSHOOT -- THAT WOULD RESULT IN ADDITIVE PITCH-DOWN COMMANDS FROM BOTH STICKS. THE USE OF THE 'TAKEOVER PUSH BUTTON' IS STILL SOMEWHAT EXTREME, EVEN IN THE CURRENT STATE OF COCKPIT DIPLOMACY BEING 'OPEN.' I COULD ENVISION A SOMEWHAT UGLY SCENE IN 'FIGHTING' FOR THE UPPER HAND OF ACFT CTL WITH THIS PARTICULAR CAPT. I WAS LOOKING FOR THE TFC VISUALLY BUT HADN'T SEEN HIM, WHILE NOTING HIS POS ON TCASII, SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE OF 3 MI AND ABOUT OUR 8 O'CLOCK POS. WE WERE NOT IN A DANGEROUS POS, JUST MESSY AND SLOPPY, AND EMBARRASSING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.