B737 captain cannot stop behind runway hold line between parallel runways at phl during taxi out due to aircraft holding ahead on the same taxiway resulting in an aircraft landing on parallel runway behind them.

Home

Browse by month

Random

Latest

About

Contact

Attributes
ACN	558826
Time
Date	200209
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : phl.airport
State Reference	PA
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737-800
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : taxi ground : holding
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : phl.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Flight Phase	ground : holding
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : cfi
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 500
ASRS Report	558826
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 7300 flight time type : 400
ASRS Report	559674
Events
Anomaly	conflict : ground less severe ground encounters other incursion : runway non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance

Narrative:

At phl taxiing out, ground told us to cross runway 27R at taxiway K3, to taxiway M. Due to numerous aircraft on taxiway M, was unable to cross the hold short line on taxiway M to runway 27R. Entire aircraft was encroaching on runway 27R. We advised ground that we were encroaching on the runway with regard to the hold short line and that we needed the aircraft ahead of us to move so that we could get across the line. Ground control commented 'we're working on it.' an aircraft then landed on runway 27R behind us. Our tail was not sticking over the runway edge, however, due to our position on taxiway M with reference to the hold short line, it was a runway encroachment. Supplemental information from acn 559674: before taxiing across runway 27R we were unable to determine the position of the aircraft in front, in relation to the hold short line, due to limited night visibility. The ground controller should not have cleared us across runway 27R.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B737 CAPT CANNOT STOP BEHIND RWY HOLD LINE BTWN PARALLEL RWYS AT PHL DURING TAXI OUT DUE TO ACFT HOLDING AHEAD ON THE SAME TXWY RESULTING IN AN ACFT LNDG ON PARALLEL RWY BEHIND THEM.

Narrative: AT PHL TAXIING OUT, GND TOLD US TO CROSS RWY 27R AT TXWY K3, TO TXWY M. DUE TO NUMEROUS ACFT ON TXWY M, WAS UNABLE TO CROSS THE HOLD SHORT LINE ON TXWY M TO RWY 27R. ENTIRE ACFT WAS ENCROACHING ON RWY 27R. WE ADVISED GND THAT WE WERE ENCROACHING ON THE RWY WITH REGARD TO THE HOLD SHORT LINE AND THAT WE NEEDED THE ACFT AHEAD OF US TO MOVE SO THAT WE COULD GET ACROSS THE LINE. GND CTL COMMENTED 'WE'RE WORKING ON IT.' AN ACFT THEN LANDED ON RWY 27R BEHIND US. OUR TAIL WAS NOT STICKING OVER THE RWY EDGE, HOWEVER, DUE TO OUR POS ON TXWY M WITH REF TO THE HOLD SHORT LINE, IT WAS A RWY ENCROACHMENT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 559674: BEFORE TAXIING ACROSS RWY 27R WE WERE UNABLE TO DETERMINE THE POS OF THE ACFT IN FRONT, IN RELATION TO THE HOLD SHORT LINE, DUE TO LIMITED NIGHT VISIBILITY. THE GND CTLR SHOULD NOT HAVE CLRED US ACROSS RWY 27R.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.