37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 559046 |
Time | |
Date | 200208 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : napse |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : l30.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Sabreliner 65 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival star : ksino.ksino1 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 140 flight time total : 10040 flight time type : 1400 |
ASRS Report | 559046 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Airport |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
On a flight from colorado springs to las vegas on the ksino RNAV one arrival, the controllers failed to give us a runway assignment until we had passed napse intersection. At that point the controller was upset that we were on a heading of 225 degrees en route to runway 25 as required on arrival by note. The controller angrily told us that we were given a runway assignment on initial call. We were 3 mi south of napse when told to turn right 280 degrees for runways 19. I fly into las vegas often, at least 4-7 times per month and runway assignments are often given late while on arrival. I even called approach on the phone explaining our need to program FMS sooner. On departures las vegas ground will often taxi aircraft to runway 19R leading pilots to believe the departure would be from runway 19R. Ground fails to say taxi runway 19R expect runway 19L. This forces pilots to delay FMS entry of runway assignment when using idale one. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter estimated that 80% of his flts are assigned the south runways. However, this particular flight ATC neglected to assign the runway and communications congestion thwarted attempts to contact ATC in a timely manner for runway assignment. ATC insisted the crew was assigned a runway when changing over to las approach control. Reporter stated the skebr arrival from the southwest, presents similar problems.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN SBR1 CREW, ARRIVING LAS, WITH NO INSTRUCTIONS TO THE CONTRARY, CONTINUED ON THE ARR AS PER STAR NOTE.
Narrative: ON A FLT FROM COLORADO SPRINGS TO LAS VEGAS ON THE KSINO RNAV ONE ARR, THE CTLRS FAILED TO GIVE US A RWY ASSIGNMENT UNTIL WE HAD PASSED NAPSE INTXN. AT THAT POINT THE CTLR WAS UPSET THAT WE WERE ON A HEADING OF 225 DEGS ENRTE TO RWY 25 AS REQUIRED ON ARR BY NOTE. THE CTLR ANGRILY TOLD US THAT WE WERE GIVEN A RWY ASSIGNMENT ON INITIAL CALL. WE WERE 3 MI S OF NAPSE WHEN TOLD TO TURN R 280 DEGS FOR RWYS 19. I FLY INTO LAS VEGAS OFTEN, AT LEAST 4-7 TIMES PER MONTH AND RWY ASSIGNMENTS ARE OFTEN GIVEN LATE WHILE ON ARR. I EVEN CALLED APCH ON THE PHONE EXPLAINING OUR NEED TO PROGRAM FMS SOONER. ON DEPS LAS VEGAS GND WILL OFTEN TAXI ACFT TO RWY 19R LEADING PLTS TO BELIEVE THE DEP WOULD BE FROM RWY 19R. GND FAILS TO SAY TAXI RWY 19R EXPECT RWY 19L. THIS FORCES PLTS TO DELAY FMS ENTRY OF RWY ASSIGNMENT WHEN USING IDALE ONE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR ESTIMATED THAT 80% OF HIS FLTS ARE ASSIGNED THE S RWYS. HOWEVER, THIS PARTICULAR FLT ATC NEGLECTED TO ASSIGN THE RWY AND COMS CONGESTION THWARTED ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT ATC IN A TIMELY MANNER FOR RWY ASSIGNMENT. ATC INSISTED THE CREW WAS ASSIGNED A RWY WHEN CHANGING OVER TO LAS APCH CTL. RPTR STATED THE SKEBR ARR FROM THE SW, PRESENTS SIMILAR PROBS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.