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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 563619 |
Time | |
Date | 200210 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : lbv.vortac |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 22000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : edff.artcc |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Falcon 900 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | cruise : holding cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 12700 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 563619 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course flight crew : became reoriented |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Publication | LO ALT ENRTE 2 |
Narrative:
I was the copilot on a flight from zurich, switzerland to frankfurt, germany. We were told to hold as published at the lopni intersection. This is located about 65 NM sse of frankfurt. It is the 360 degree radial 13 mi fix of lbu (luborg) VOR. I had the low altitude chart open and easily found it. The hold is depicted north of the fix so I immediately went to the FMS to call it up and sent it to the captain. We were about 20 mi south of the fix and already slowed to 210 KTS. We were at FL220. The FMS showed the hold south of the fix so I called ATC to confirm they wanted us to hold north of the fix. They were moderately busy, spoke good international english, and said yes to my question about holding north. After reviewing the depicted hold, I could not understand how to enter it because you were expected to go straight after you crossed the fix, then around the hold back into the fix. Finally, in order to stay within safe airspace, the captain and I agreed to go to raw data VOR radials, time for 1 1/2 mins after crossing the fix, then turn. However, within seconds of crossing the fix, the controller asked if we had started our turn yet. We said no, we were timing for a 1/2 mins and would then make our right turn. The controller cleared us for an immediate right turn to reverse course, then time for 1 min, then back to the fix. I became suspicious, found the same fix on the frankfurt area chart, and discovered the hold depicted at lopni south of the fix. This depiction made sense. In the meantime, the controller cleared us on to frankfurt without anymore delay. I believe the low altitude chart is either drawn wrong or the depiction was purposely put north of the fix because the cartographer ran out of room in the crowded area south of the fix. That is why the turns are shown correctly only if the holding takes place south of lopni. Anyway, it is very confusing to have it drawn on the map on the wrong side of the fix with turn arrows only good if it is in another location. The chart led us astray, the controller failed to answer our question correctly, and we were in an unfamiliar location. I intend to call chart company on monday about the situation, but hope you can pass along our concerns, also. The controller was sharp when he immediately saw us do something he didn't expect. He was good about correcting us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A CPR FALCON 900 FLT OVERSHOOTS ITS ASSIGNED HOLDING POINT WHEN THE CREW IS MISLED AS TO WHERE THE HOLDING PATTERN IS LOCATED RELATIVE TO LOPNI INTXN, FO.
Narrative: I WAS THE COPLT ON A FLT FROM ZURICH, SWITZERLAND TO FRANKFURT, GERMANY. WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD AS PUBLISHED AT THE LOPNI INTXN. THIS IS LOCATED ABOUT 65 NM SSE OF FRANKFURT. IT IS THE 360 DEG RADIAL 13 MI FIX OF LBU (LUBORG) VOR. I HAD THE LOW ALT CHART OPEN AND EASILY FOUND IT. THE HOLD IS DEPICTED N OF THE FIX SO I IMMEDIATELY WENT TO THE FMS TO CALL IT UP AND SENT IT TO THE CAPT. WE WERE ABOUT 20 MI S OF THE FIX AND ALREADY SLOWED TO 210 KTS. WE WERE AT FL220. THE FMS SHOWED THE HOLD S OF THE FIX SO I CALLED ATC TO CONFIRM THEY WANTED US TO HOLD N OF THE FIX. THEY WERE MODERATELY BUSY, SPOKE GOOD INTL ENGLISH, AND SAID YES TO MY QUESTION ABOUT HOLDING N. AFTER REVIEWING THE DEPICTED HOLD, I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO ENTER IT BECAUSE YOU WERE EXPECTED TO GO STRAIGHT AFTER YOU CROSSED THE FIX, THEN AROUND THE HOLD BACK INTO THE FIX. FINALLY, IN ORDER TO STAY WITHIN SAFE AIRSPACE, THE CAPT AND I AGREED TO GO TO RAW DATA VOR RADIALS, TIME FOR 1 1/2 MINS AFTER XING THE FIX, THEN TURN. HOWEVER, WITHIN SECONDS OF XING THE FIX, THE CTLR ASKED IF WE HAD STARTED OUR TURN YET. WE SAID NO, WE WERE TIMING FOR A 1/2 MINS AND WOULD THEN MAKE OUR R TURN. THE CTLR CLRED US FOR AN IMMEDIATE R TURN TO REVERSE COURSE, THEN TIME FOR 1 MIN, THEN BACK TO THE FIX. I BECAME SUSPICIOUS, FOUND THE SAME FIX ON THE FRANKFURT AREA CHART, AND DISCOVERED THE HOLD DEPICTED AT LOPNI S OF THE FIX. THIS DEPICTION MADE SENSE. IN THE MEANTIME, THE CTLR CLRED US ON TO FRANKFURT WITHOUT ANYMORE DELAY. I BELIEVE THE LOW ALT CHART IS EITHER DRAWN WRONG OR THE DEPICTION WAS PURPOSELY PUT N OF THE FIX BECAUSE THE CARTOGRAPHER RAN OUT OF ROOM IN THE CROWDED AREA S OF THE FIX. THAT IS WHY THE TURNS ARE SHOWN CORRECTLY ONLY IF THE HOLDING TAKES PLACE S OF LOPNI. ANYWAY, IT IS VERY CONFUSING TO HAVE IT DRAWN ON THE MAP ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE FIX WITH TURN ARROWS ONLY GOOD IF IT IS IN ANOTHER LOCATION. THE CHART LED US ASTRAY, THE CTLR FAILED TO ANSWER OUR QUESTION CORRECTLY, AND WE WERE IN AN UNFAMILIAR LOCATION. I INTEND TO CALL CHART COMPANY ON MONDAY ABOUT THE SIT, BUT HOPE YOU CAN PASS ALONG OUR CONCERNS, ALSO. THE CTLR WAS SHARP WHEN HE IMMEDIATELY SAW US DO SOMETHING HE DIDN'T EXPECT. HE WAS GOOD ABOUT CORRECTING US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.