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B757 flight crew on sct frequency is frustrated with the visual separation procedures and clearance amendments experienced inbound to lax.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 604491 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200312 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : pdz |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Brasilia EMB-120 All Series |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 14500 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 604491 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 700 vertical : 100 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Airport ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
Arrival was anything but standard with numerous off course vectors, speed reductions, and altitude hold-ups. Asked to follow aircraft on arrival for runway 24R. Unable due to cloud layer. Just outside arnes, given clearance to unfamiliar intersection. Asked ATC to just leave us on previous clearance. Controller told us he was just trying to 'help us' by setting us up for runway 25R. He then told emb-120 to keep us in sight, snuggle up to but do not pass our aircraft. They did. We received every RA from climb to descend to monitor vertical speed, all while we were dealing with high, fast handoff. Don't believe this is the way to get more aircraft into airport. This was not a very busy period and no need to increase cockpit workload.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 FLT CREW ON SCT FREQ IS FRUSTRATED WITH THE VISUAL SEPARATION PROCS AND CLRNC AMENDMENTS EXPERIENCED INBOUND TO LAX.
Narrative: ARR WAS ANYTHING BUT STANDARD WITH NUMEROUS OFF COURSE VECTORS, SPD REDUCTIONS, AND ALT HOLD-UPS. ASKED TO FOLLOW ACFT ON ARR FOR RWY 24R. UNABLE DUE TO CLOUD LAYER. JUST OUTSIDE ARNES, GIVEN CLRNC TO UNFAMILIAR INTXN. ASKED ATC TO JUST LEAVE US ON PREVIOUS CLRNC. CTLR TOLD US HE WAS JUST TRYING TO 'HELP US' BY SETTING US UP FOR RWY 25R. HE THEN TOLD EMB-120 TO KEEP US IN SIGHT, SNUGGLE UP TO BUT DO NOT PASS OUR ACFT. THEY DID. WE RECEIVED EVERY RA FROM CLB TO DSND TO MONITOR VERT SPD, ALL WHILE WE WERE DEALING WITH HIGH, FAST HDOF. DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY TO GET MORE ACFT INTO ARPT. THIS WAS NOT A VERY BUSY PERIOD AND NO NEED TO INCREASE COCKPIT WORKLOAD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.