Narrative:

We were flying a full flight. When the purser gave us the count of '2 and 40.' I said '2 and 40?' how could that be? We were supposed to be full! 'She replied, 'we had a lot of misconnects.' I said ok and the first officer said it did look empty back there. So I accepted the count. On taxi out, we got the final weights showing a passenger count of 87. The first officer called the purser to verify the count explaining that we were way off. The first officer had 2 conversations with her and one with load planning. I did not hear any of these conversations first hand. The purser was emphatic that she had '2 and 40 or 42 passenger total.' so we got new numbers from load and reset our bugs for the new weight (84600 versus 93100 ZFW). The takeoff was normal and uneventful. Prior to top of descent, the purser called and said she was wrong about the count, that we actually had 8/78 or 86 total. We adjusted our ZFW back up and landed normally. I had a postflt debriefing with the crew. I learned that the flight attendants in the back did not even know there was a discrepancy, and that a physical head count was not done by the purser, even after I challenged the count on the gate and the first officer challenged her twice. The purser never consulted the other flight attendants. They knew the correct count. 1 aft flight attendant said they never really got a valid manifest from the agent. The agent said, 'just take 40 off' the manifest she gave them. Maybe we need to use a standard phrase similar to 'cabin ready' like 'physical recount' or 'head count required' so there is no misunderstanding. Obvious clear issues would be communication. We even asked her if she meant 40 empties or 40 people, trying to clarify. It seems unbelievable that she could be that far off the count just from a situational awareness standpoint. Uneventful outcome, good lesson for all. Supplemental information from acn 616438: during cruise, the purser called to say that they were mistaken and the actual account was 86 passenger. We then realized that we had taken off 8500 pounds heavier than we thought we were. Had the flight attendants not told us of their mistake we would have landed with the same weight discrepancy. After the flight, the purser said she did not understand that we were asking how many people we had on board. She stated that she thought we were asking her to repeat the count that she originally gave us. The conversations I had with her on the interphone were significant, yet she said that she heard little of it and understood even less. I was under the impression that she knew what I wanted and had confirmed the count each time. Furthermore, the captain stated later that at pushback time he questioned the count of 42 and the purser said it was because of misconnects. We found out later that the gate agent had told the purser that the count was '2 and 40 less than full,' or something to that extent. This is where the purser got her erroneous numbers. The other 2 flight attendants knew that the count was 8/78, but there was no communication to the purser of this information. While I feel that the purser did not have her head in the game, I could have stopped the chain of events by specifically directing a new head count. I even asked her if she meant 42 empty seats or 42 people. I think there was some selective listening going on, but again I could have avoided the problem by shortening my explanations and giving specific direction.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B733 FLT CREW DEPARTS WITH INCORRECT PAX COUNT, PERFORMING AN OVERWT TKOF FROM ORD, IL.

Narrative: WE WERE FLYING A FULL FLT. WHEN THE PURSER GAVE US THE COUNT OF '2 AND 40.' I SAID '2 AND 40?' HOW COULD THAT BE? WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FULL! 'SHE REPLIED, 'WE HAD A LOT OF MISCONNECTS.' I SAID OK AND THE FO SAID IT DID LOOK EMPTY BACK THERE. SO I ACCEPTED THE COUNT. ON TAXI OUT, WE GOT THE FINAL WTS SHOWING A PAX COUNT OF 87. THE FO CALLED THE PURSER TO VERIFY THE COUNT EXPLAINING THAT WE WERE WAY OFF. THE FO HAD 2 CONVERSATIONS WITH HER AND ONE WITH LOAD PLANNING. I DID NOT HEAR ANY OF THESE CONVERSATIONS FIRST HAND. THE PURSER WAS EMPHATIC THAT SHE HAD '2 AND 40 OR 42 PAX TOTAL.' SO WE GOT NEW NUMBERS FROM LOAD AND RESET OUR BUGS FOR THE NEW WT (84600 VERSUS 93100 ZFW). THE TKOF WAS NORMAL AND UNEVENTFUL. PRIOR TO TOP OF DSCNT, THE PURSER CALLED AND SAID SHE WAS WRONG ABOUT THE COUNT, THAT WE ACTUALLY HAD 8/78 OR 86 TOTAL. WE ADJUSTED OUR ZFW BACK UP AND LANDED NORMALLY. I HAD A POSTFLT DEBRIEFING WITH THE CREW. I LEARNED THAT THE FLT ATTENDANTS IN THE BACK DID NOT EVEN KNOW THERE WAS A DISCREPANCY, AND THAT A PHYSICAL HEAD COUNT WAS NOT DONE BY THE PURSER, EVEN AFTER I CHALLENGED THE COUNT ON THE GATE AND THE FO CHALLENGED HER TWICE. THE PURSER NEVER CONSULTED THE OTHER FLT ATTENDANTS. THEY KNEW THE CORRECT COUNT. 1 AFT FLT ATTENDANT SAID THEY NEVER REALLY GOT A VALID MANIFEST FROM THE AGENT. THE AGENT SAID, 'JUST TAKE 40 OFF' THE MANIFEST SHE GAVE THEM. MAYBE WE NEED TO USE A STANDARD PHRASE SIMILAR TO 'CABIN READY' LIKE 'PHYSICAL RECOUNT' OR 'HEAD COUNT REQUIRED' SO THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING. OBVIOUS CLR ISSUES WOULD BE COM. WE EVEN ASKED HER IF SHE MEANT 40 EMPTIES OR 40 PEOPLE, TRYING TO CLARIFY. IT SEEMS UNBELIEVABLE THAT SHE COULD BE THAT FAR OFF THE COUNT JUST FROM A SITUATIONAL AWARENESS STANDPOINT. UNEVENTFUL OUTCOME, GOOD LESSON FOR ALL. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 616438: DURING CRUISE, THE PURSER CALLED TO SAY THAT THEY WERE MISTAKEN AND THE ACTUAL ACCOUNT WAS 86 PAX. WE THEN REALIZED THAT WE HAD TAKEN OFF 8500 LBS HEAVIER THAN WE THOUGHT WE WERE. HAD THE FLT ATTENDANTS NOT TOLD US OF THEIR MISTAKE WE WOULD HAVE LANDED WITH THE SAME WT DISCREPANCY. AFTER THE FLT, THE PURSER SAID SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WE WERE ASKING HOW MANY PEOPLE WE HAD ON BOARD. SHE STATED THAT SHE THOUGHT WE WERE ASKING HER TO REPEAT THE COUNT THAT SHE ORIGINALLY GAVE US. THE CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH HER ON THE INTERPHONE WERE SIGNIFICANT, YET SHE SAID THAT SHE HEARD LITTLE OF IT AND UNDERSTOOD EVEN LESS. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT SHE KNEW WHAT I WANTED AND HAD CONFIRMED THE COUNT EACH TIME. FURTHERMORE, THE CAPT STATED LATER THAT AT PUSHBACK TIME HE QUESTIONED THE COUNT OF 42 AND THE PURSER SAID IT WAS BECAUSE OF MISCONNECTS. WE FOUND OUT LATER THAT THE GATE AGENT HAD TOLD THE PURSER THAT THE COUNT WAS '2 AND 40 LESS THAN FULL,' OR SOMETHING TO THAT EXTENT. THIS IS WHERE THE PURSER GOT HER ERRONEOUS NUMBERS. THE OTHER 2 FLT ATTENDANTS KNEW THAT THE COUNT WAS 8/78, BUT THERE WAS NO COM TO THE PURSER OF THIS INFO. WHILE I FEEL THAT THE PURSER DID NOT HAVE HER HEAD IN THE GAME, I COULD HAVE STOPPED THE CHAIN OF EVENTS BY SPECIFICALLY DIRECTING A NEW HEAD COUNT. I EVEN ASKED HER IF SHE MEANT 42 EMPTY SEATS OR 42 PEOPLE. I THINK THERE WAS SOME SELECTIVE LISTENING GOING ON, BUT AGAIN I COULD HAVE AVOIDED THE PROB BY SHORTENING MY EXPLANATIONS AND GIVING SPECIFIC DIRECTION.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.