Narrative:

ATC (center) directed us direct civet -- lax at FL390. We asked several times to get lower, as we were being held too high to make a normal descent into civet. We asked several times what arrival we would get and were told 'direct lax from civet for now, but it will either be the civet or mitts arrival.' finally, before handoff to socal approach, we were told (just outside of civet) to maintain 320 KTS or greater. The combination of late designation of approach, high rate of speed and descent to make the crossing altitudes contributed to poor speed control. Also, the late designation of the approach made setting the cockpit up quickly difficult. We slightly overshot civet in our turn-on to course. At about 8000 ft, the controller asked what our airspeed was. I had set idle power and extended speed brakes to make a 180 KT speed assignment just given. We had 260 KTS on our indictor at that point, and were vectored off the approach. Once slowed, we were vectored back onto the approach with lax. It would be far safer to allow aircraft to descend into civet at a normal rate, normal speeds, and give early warning as to what arrival to expect. Unlike today, when the arrival is a secret until the last min, and the dscnts are held up and the speed is kept high. The workload can exceed standards. The best response I should have given is 'unable to comply,' 'please vector us off the arrival until normal descent can be made.'

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: SPD DEV BY A B757 FLT CREW DURING A HIGH RATE OF DSCNT ON THE MITTS ARR INTO LAX.

Narrative: ATC (CTR) DIRECTED US DIRECT CIVET -- LAX AT FL390. WE ASKED SEVERAL TIMES TO GET LOWER, AS WE WERE BEING HELD TOO HIGH TO MAKE A NORMAL DSCNT INTO CIVET. WE ASKED SEVERAL TIMES WHAT ARR WE WOULD GET AND WERE TOLD 'DIRECT LAX FROM CIVET FOR NOW, BUT IT WILL EITHER BE THE CIVET OR MITTS ARR.' FINALLY, BEFORE HDOF TO SOCAL APCH, WE WERE TOLD (JUST OUTSIDE OF CIVET) TO MAINTAIN 320 KTS OR GREATER. THE COMBINATION OF LATE DESIGNATION OF APCH, HIGH RATE OF SPD AND DSCNT TO MAKE THE XING ALTS CONTRIBUTED TO POOR SPD CTL. ALSO, THE LATE DESIGNATION OF THE APCH MADE SETTING THE COCKPIT UP QUICKLY DIFFICULT. WE SLIGHTLY OVERSHOT CIVET IN OUR TURN-ON TO COURSE. AT ABOUT 8000 FT, THE CTLR ASKED WHAT OUR AIRSPD WAS. I HAD SET IDLE PWR AND EXTENDED SPD BRAKES TO MAKE A 180 KT SPD ASSIGNMENT JUST GIVEN. WE HAD 260 KTS ON OUR INDICTOR AT THAT POINT, AND WERE VECTORED OFF THE APCH. ONCE SLOWED, WE WERE VECTORED BACK ONTO THE APCH WITH LAX. IT WOULD BE FAR SAFER TO ALLOW ACFT TO DSND INTO CIVET AT A NORMAL RATE, NORMAL SPDS, AND GIVE EARLY WARNING AS TO WHAT ARR TO EXPECT. UNLIKE TODAY, WHEN THE ARR IS A SECRET UNTIL THE LAST MIN, AND THE DSCNTS ARE HELD UP AND THE SPD IS KEPT HIGH. THE WORKLOAD CAN EXCEED STANDARDS. THE BEST RESPONSE I SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IS 'UNABLE TO COMPLY,' 'PLEASE VECTOR US OFF THE ARR UNTIL NORMAL DSCNT CAN BE MADE.'

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.