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Attributes | |
ACN | 694977 |
Time | |
Date | 200604 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzzz.airport |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 40000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zzzz.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-600 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 694977 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | other personnel |
ASRS Report | 694979 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other other : 2 other other : 3 |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Company Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
This was a ZZZZ turn. Departing out of ZZZ; an MEL for the wet compass inoperative was added to our release. In accordance with the MEL; the flight was to be conducted in radar contact. Prior to accepting the MEL; I made a call to the dispatcher working my flight to call ZZZZ and verify that I would stay in radar contact on the entire departure; etc; out of ZZZZ (sometimes the ZZZZ radar is not up to speed like we are used to in the united states). After these calls by the dispatcher; we talked again and he assured me that their radars were all working and it would not be an issue for my flight. Well; all went well until on the return leg from ZZZZ to ZZZ. About 80 NM south of ZZZZ; center called and asked me to report over ZZZZ. I asked if this was due to any radar outages and he confirmed that the ZZZZ radar (which surfaces a radius of about 100 NM around ZZZZ would be OTS starting today a few hours ago and for the next couple of weeks. Continued under captain's emergency authority/authorized on the flight planned route for about 160 NM with no other issues other than relieving the MEL restr of being in 'positive radar contact' without the wet compass working. Center was questioned about a possible en route flight plan change to the north to stay in 'radar contact' but due to fuel considerations it was not an option to deviate several hundred mi north. No NOTAMS were included in the flight paperwork about this radar being OTS and I'm not sure if dispatch had access to this information when I asked and was released. Supplemental information from acn 694979: I assumed control of this flight after it had been released under an MEL for non stabilized magnetic compass; with a restr that 'airplane is operated with dual independent navigation capability; and under positive radar control by ATC on the en route portion of the flight.' the previous dispatcher and the chief dispatcher contacted ZZZZ center to confirm radar coverage would be maintained per the MEL as the ZZZZ radar site was notamed OTS. ZZZZ center was contacted by phone and was told radar coverage would be maintained as long as the flight was rted via the specific airway. The flight crew was briefed on the need to fly this routing prior. There was no communication from the flight en route; however; the following day I was advised that the crew became aware that they were not in radar coverage. I do not know what caused this gap in the coverage; as ATC had been queried about this very item. Supplemental information from acn 694981: I found out about the ZZZZ center radar outage from a PIREP I got from flight en route. I had the chief dispatcher call ZZZZ center to confirm. The chief reported that ZZZZ center says it's only a 2 hour outage. I looked again for a NOTAM and couldn't find one. Since it would be only a 2 hour outage; I wasn't worried about the XA53 departure since the radar would then be up at that time. However; I did want to confirm that the radar did come up and called ZZZZ center myself approximately 1 hour before departure. I was told that the radar outage was for a 2 week duration. I inquired about radar coverage and told some planes stay on radar some don't. I inquired about changing the flight's route up and told the same. I then inquired about flying up the peninsula and was told it was the same there. I then informed the chief that we would need to fix the plane or look for a long way around the outage. It was then that a new chief took over and called ZZZZ center himself. After his conversation with ZZZZ center; he informed me another route would work and ZZZZ center advised him they had overlapping coverage on that airway. I took his information as true and changed the routing over. I also remember something about the only real radar hole was 80 NM north of ZZZZ to the border. The communication with ZZZZ is difficult at best. I wish the flow of information between our 2 countries was better. I now understand the captain is questioning his radar coverage around the ZZZZ area.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-700 FLT CREW IS DISPATCHED WITH AN INOP WET COMPASS SYS. ACFT MUST REMAIN IN RADAR CONTACT THROUGHOUT THE FLT.
Narrative: THIS WAS A ZZZZ TURN. DEPARTING OUT OF ZZZ; AN MEL FOR THE WET COMPASS INOP WAS ADDED TO OUR RELEASE. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MEL; THE FLT WAS TO BE CONDUCTED IN RADAR CONTACT. PRIOR TO ACCEPTING THE MEL; I MADE A CALL TO THE DISPATCHER WORKING MY FLT TO CALL ZZZZ AND VERIFY THAT I WOULD STAY IN RADAR CONTACT ON THE ENTIRE DEP; ETC; OUT OF ZZZZ (SOMETIMES THE ZZZZ RADAR IS NOT UP TO SPD LIKE WE ARE USED TO IN THE UNITED STATES). AFTER THESE CALLS BY THE DISPATCHER; WE TALKED AGAIN AND HE ASSURED ME THAT THEIR RADARS WERE ALL WORKING AND IT WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE FOR MY FLT. WELL; ALL WENT WELL UNTIL ON THE RETURN LEG FROM ZZZZ TO ZZZ. ABOUT 80 NM S OF ZZZZ; CTR CALLED AND ASKED ME TO RPT OVER ZZZZ. I ASKED IF THIS WAS DUE TO ANY RADAR OUTAGES AND HE CONFIRMED THAT THE ZZZZ RADAR (WHICH SURFACES A RADIUS OF ABOUT 100 NM AROUND ZZZZ WOULD BE OTS STARTING TODAY A FEW HRS AGO AND FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WKS. CONTINUED UNDER CAPT'S EMER AUTH ON THE FLT PLANNED RTE FOR ABOUT 160 NM WITH NO OTHER ISSUES OTHER THAN RELIEVING THE MEL RESTR OF BEING IN 'POSITIVE RADAR CONTACT' WITHOUT THE WET COMPASS WORKING. CTR WAS QUESTIONED ABOUT A POSSIBLE ENRTE FLT PLAN CHANGE TO THE N TO STAY IN 'RADAR CONTACT' BUT DUE TO FUEL CONSIDERATIONS IT WAS NOT AN OPTION TO DEVIATE SEVERAL HUNDRED MI N. NO NOTAMS WERE INCLUDED IN THE FLT PAPERWORK ABOUT THIS RADAR BEING OTS AND I'M NOT SURE IF DISPATCH HAD ACCESS TO THIS INFO WHEN I ASKED AND WAS RELEASED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 694979: I ASSUMED CTL OF THIS FLT AFTER IT HAD BEEN RELEASED UNDER AN MEL FOR NON STABILIZED MAGNETIC COMPASS; WITH A RESTR THAT 'AIRPLANE IS OPERATED WITH DUAL INDEPENDENT NAV CAPABILITY; AND UNDER POSITIVE RADAR CTL BY ATC ON THE ENRTE PORTION OF THE FLT.' THE PREVIOUS DISPATCHER AND THE CHIEF DISPATCHER CONTACTED ZZZZ CTR TO CONFIRM RADAR COVERAGE WOULD BE MAINTAINED PER THE MEL AS THE ZZZZ RADAR SITE WAS NOTAMED OTS. ZZZZ CTR WAS CONTACTED BY PHONE AND WAS TOLD RADAR COVERAGE WOULD BE MAINTAINED AS LONG AS THE FLT WAS RTED VIA THE SPECIFIC AIRWAY. THE FLT CREW WAS BRIEFED ON THE NEED TO FLY THIS ROUTING PRIOR. THERE WAS NO COM FROM THE FLT ENRTE; HOWEVER; THE FOLLOWING DAY I WAS ADVISED THAT THE CREW BECAME AWARE THAT THEY WERE NOT IN RADAR COVERAGE. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS GAP IN THE COVERAGE; AS ATC HAD BEEN QUERIED ABOUT THIS VERY ITEM. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 694981: I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE ZZZZ CTR RADAR OUTAGE FROM A PIREP I GOT FROM FLT ENRTE. I HAD THE CHIEF DISPATCHER CALL ZZZZ CTR TO CONFIRM. THE CHIEF RPTED THAT ZZZZ CTR SAYS IT'S ONLY A 2 HR OUTAGE. I LOOKED AGAIN FOR A NOTAM AND COULDN'T FIND ONE. SINCE IT WOULD BE ONLY A 2 HR OUTAGE; I WASN'T WORRIED ABOUT THE XA53 DEP SINCE THE RADAR WOULD THEN BE UP AT THAT TIME. HOWEVER; I DID WANT TO CONFIRM THAT THE RADAR DID COME UP AND CALLED ZZZZ CTR MYSELF APPROX 1 HR BEFORE DEP. I WAS TOLD THAT THE RADAR OUTAGE WAS FOR A 2 WK DURATION. I INQUIRED ABOUT RADAR COVERAGE AND TOLD SOME PLANES STAY ON RADAR SOME DON'T. I INQUIRED ABOUT CHANGING THE FLT'S RTE UP AND TOLD THE SAME. I THEN INQUIRED ABOUT FLYING UP THE PENINSULA AND WAS TOLD IT WAS THE SAME THERE. I THEN INFORMED THE CHIEF THAT WE WOULD NEED TO FIX THE PLANE OR LOOK FOR A LONG WAY AROUND THE OUTAGE. IT WAS THEN THAT A NEW CHIEF TOOK OVER AND CALLED ZZZZ CTR HIMSELF. AFTER HIS CONVERSATION WITH ZZZZ CTR; HE INFORMED ME ANOTHER RTE WOULD WORK AND ZZZZ CTR ADVISED HIM THEY HAD OVERLAPPING COVERAGE ON THAT AIRWAY. I TOOK HIS INFO AS TRUE AND CHANGED THE ROUTING OVER. I ALSO REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT THE ONLY REAL RADAR HOLE WAS 80 NM N OF ZZZZ TO THE BORDER. THE COM WITH ZZZZ IS DIFFICULT AT BEST. I WISH THE FLOW OF INFO BTWN OUR 2 COUNTRIES WAS BETTER. I NOW UNDERSTAND THE CAPT IS QUESTIONING HIS RADAR COVERAGE AROUND THE ZZZZ AREA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.