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Lear 45 crew reports problems with runway hold short markings at las runway 1L/7L junction.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 715134 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200610 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : las.airport |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : atl.tower |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Learjet 45 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : corporate |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 5640 flight time type : 1160 |
| ASRS Report | 715134 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : corporate |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi technician : airframe technician : powerplant |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 65 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 1200 |
| ASRS Report | 715135 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : runway non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance FAA Chart Or Publication Airport |
| Primary Problem | Airport |
| Situations | |
| Airport | markings : las.airport |
| Chart | airport : las.airport |
Narrative:
We were cleared to taxi from FBO to runway 1L via taxiway H and to hold short of runway 7L. The night was very dark but clear. As we approached taxiway B; I commented to the copilot that I could not see a hold line and would stop opposite the taxiway B sign. This was an area where the thresholds of runway 7L and 1L came together. The copilot contacted the tower who then cleared us to cross runway 7L and to hold short of runway 1L. This area of the airport was also very dark and the taxiway lines were faded and difficult to see. I taxied on the green lighted taxiway centerline that I thought led to runway 1L. The copilot; who had the taxi chart in hand; was helping me with directions and seemed ok with this action. As I made the left turn along the centerline; I realized that I turned onto runway 7L. I immediately turned back to the right to get off the runway and to what I thought to be the taxiway toward runway 1L. I heard the tower issue a go around to an aircraft on final for runway 1L and I immediately stopped and told the copilot to tell the tower we were not sure where we were and to ask for directions. I never did see a hold short line for any runway. Apparently; we ended up between runway 1L edge line and the hold short line when I made the right turn away from runway 7L back to runway 1L. We were both confused at this point as to how we got to where we were and where to go next. Tower then told us to flash our taxi lights. He then issued clearance to taxi straight ahead to runway 1R and put us in position and hold on runway 1R. We now had our situational awareness back and everything proceeded normally from here on. I always carry and review government taxi chart for each airport I fly into. I download these from the web prior to each flight so that I have an up-to-date chart. Unfortunately; there is very little detail on the chart for the las taxi area for runway 7L and runway 1L. After this incident; I also reviewed the las chart that commercial chart company provides. While it also shows little detail of the taxi area for runway 7L and runway 1L; it does; however; identify this area as a runway incursion 'hot spot.' the government chart does not have this feature.supplemental information from acn 715135: it was day 4 of a very long duty day. It was night; but WX was not a factor. Neither pilot had ever flown to las before. As PNF; I was running the radios. Upon the call to ground control we were cleared to taxi to runway 1L; hold short of runway 7L. As we departed the FBO ramp; the captain commented that the taxiway centerline was faded. We proceeded south on taxiway H and held just beyond taxiway B. After a few minutes of holding; I called ground to advise; 'holding short of runway 7L.' the controller told us to switch to tower. After calling tower; he instructed us to; 'hold short of runway 7L.' this was acknowledged by me. We did not move at that point. A very short time later (approximately 20 seconds); he called us and told us to hold short of runway 1L. This was also acknowledged. As we started to move; I glanced down at the taxi chart. When I looked back out; I was momentarily disoriented but the captain and I simultaneously realized we were lined up with runway 7L. I suggested a hard right turn to get back over to runway 1L. At about this time the controller ordered an air carrier to go around. The captain did make a hard right turn to maneuver back over to runway 1L. He taxied slowly looking for the hold short line. Neither of us ever saw any hold short markings for either runway. As we approached the runway edge line for runway 1L; I advised the captain to stop. Tower called us before we could call him and he instructed us to expedite across runway 1L and hold short of runway 1R. We complied; and after a period of time we were cleared to depart runway 1R. Conclusions: if I had to do it all over again; I would request a runway 1L at taxiway B departure and not deal with the poorly marked corner of the airfield. Crew fatigue was probably a factor.callback conversation with reporter acn 715134 revealed the following information: the intersection is extremely confusing and they never did see the hold line.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LEAR 45 CREW RPTS PROBS WITH RWY HOLD SHORT MARKINGS AT LAS RWY 1L/7L JUNCTION.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED TO TAXI FROM FBO TO RWY 1L VIA TXWY H AND TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 7L. THE NIGHT WAS VERY DARK BUT CLR. AS WE APCHED TXWY B; I COMMENTED TO THE COPLT THAT I COULD NOT SEE A HOLD LINE AND WOULD STOP OPPOSITE THE TXWY B SIGN. THIS WAS AN AREA WHERE THE THRESHOLDS OF RWY 7L AND 1L CAME TOGETHER. THE COPLT CONTACTED THE TWR WHO THEN CLRED US TO CROSS RWY 7L AND TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 1L. THIS AREA OF THE ARPT WAS ALSO VERY DARK AND THE TXWY LINES WERE FADED AND DIFFICULT TO SEE. I TAXIED ON THE GREEN LIGHTED TXWY CTRLINE THAT I THOUGHT LED TO RWY 1L. THE COPLT; WHO HAD THE TAXI CHART IN HAND; WAS HELPING ME WITH DIRECTIONS AND SEEMED OK WITH THIS ACTION. AS I MADE THE LEFT TURN ALONG THE CTRLINE; I REALIZED THAT I TURNED ONTO RWY 7L. I IMMEDIATELY TURNED BACK TO THE RIGHT TO GET OFF THE RWY AND TO WHAT I THOUGHT TO BE THE TXWY TOWARD RWY 1L. I HEARD THE TWR ISSUE A GO AROUND TO AN ACFT ON FINAL FOR RWY 1L AND I IMMEDIATELY STOPPED AND TOLD THE COPLT TO TELL THE TWR WE WERE NOT SURE WHERE WE WERE AND TO ASK FOR DIRECTIONS. I NEVER DID SEE A HOLD SHORT LINE FOR ANY RWY. APPARENTLY; WE ENDED UP BETWEEN RWY 1L EDGE LINE AND THE HOLD SHORT LINE WHEN I MADE THE RIGHT TURN AWAY FROM RWY 7L BACK TO RWY 1L. WE WERE BOTH CONFUSED AT THIS POINT AS TO HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE WERE AND WHERE TO GO NEXT. TWR THEN TOLD US TO FLASH OUR TAXI LIGHTS. HE THEN ISSUED CLRNC TO TAXI STRAIGHT AHEAD TO RWY 1R AND PUT US IN POSITION AND HOLD ON RWY 1R. WE NOW HAD OUR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS BACK AND EVERYTHING PROCEEDED NORMALLY FROM HERE ON. I ALWAYS CARRY AND REVIEW GOV TAXI CHART FOR EACH ARPT I FLY INTO. I DOWNLOAD THESE FROM THE WEB PRIOR TO EACH FLT SO THAT I HAVE AN UP-TO-DATE CHART. UNFORTUNATELY; THERE IS VERY LITTLE DETAIL ON THE CHART FOR THE LAS TAXI AREA FOR RWY 7L AND RWY 1L. AFTER THIS INCIDENT; I ALSO REVIEWED THE LAS CHART THAT COMMERCIAL CHART COMPANY PROVIDES. WHILE IT ALSO SHOWS LITTLE DETAIL OF THE TAXI AREA FOR RWY 7L AND RWY 1L; IT DOES; HOWEVER; IDENTIFY THIS AREA AS A RWY INCURSION 'HOT SPOT.' THE GOV CHART DOES NOT HAVE THIS FEATURE.SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 715135: IT WAS DAY 4 OF A VERY LONG DUTY DAY. IT WAS NIGHT; BUT WX WAS NOT A FACTOR. NEITHER PLT HAD EVER FLOWN TO LAS BEFORE. AS PNF; I WAS RUNNING THE RADIOS. UPON THE CALL TO GND CTL WE WERE CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 1L; HOLD SHORT OF RWY 7L. AS WE DEPARTED THE FBO RAMP; THE CAPT COMMENTED THAT THE TXWY CTRLINE WAS FADED. WE PROCEEDED S ON TXWY H AND HELD JUST BEYOND TXWY B. AFTER A FEW MINUTES OF HOLDING; I CALLED GND TO ADVISE; 'HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 7L.' THE CTLR TOLD US TO SWITCH TO TWR. AFTER CALLING TWR; HE INSTRUCTED US TO; 'HOLD SHORT OF RWY 7L.' THIS WAS ACKNOWLEDGED BY ME. WE DID NOT MOVE AT THAT POINT. A VERY SHORT TIME LATER (APPROX 20 SECONDS); HE CALLED US AND TOLD US TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 1L. THIS WAS ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED. AS WE STARTED TO MOVE; I GLANCED DOWN AT THE TAXI CHART. WHEN I LOOKED BACK OUT; I WAS MOMENTARILY DISORIENTED BUT THE CAPT AND I SIMULTANEOUSLY REALIZED WE WERE LINED UP WITH RWY 7L. I SUGGESTED A HARD RIGHT TURN TO GET BACK OVER TO RWY 1L. AT ABOUT THIS TIME THE CTLR ORDERED AN AIR CARRIER TO GO AROUND. THE CAPT DID MAKE A HARD RIGHT TURN TO MANEUVER BACK OVER TO RWY 1L. HE TAXIED SLOWLY LOOKING FOR THE HOLD SHORT LINE. NEITHER OF US EVER SAW ANY HOLD SHORT MARKINGS FOR EITHER RWY. AS WE APPROACHED THE RWY EDGE LINE FOR RWY 1L; I ADVISED THE CAPT TO STOP. TWR CALLED US BEFORE WE COULD CALL HIM AND HE INSTRUCTED US TO EXPEDITE ACROSS RWY 1L AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 1R. WE COMPLIED; AND AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME WE WERE CLRED TO DEPART RWY 1R. CONCLUSIONS: IF I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN; I WOULD REQUEST A RWY 1L AT TXWY B DEPARTURE AND NOT DEAL WITH THE POORLY MARKED CORNER OF THE AIRFIELD. CREW FATIGUE WAS PROBABLY A FACTOR.CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR ACN 715134 REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE INTXN IS EXTREMELY CONFUSING AND THEY NEVER DID SEE THE HOLD LINE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.