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Attributes | |
ACN | 718660 |
Time | |
Date | 200611 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : sct.tracon |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Weather Elements | Turbulence other |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Cessna 210 Centurion / Turbo Centurion 210C 210D |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 2000 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 718660 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I had been receiving radar flight following on a flight from fat to sna. A squawk was assigned over bakersfield and sna was idented as the destination airport. I received considerable assistance navigating around the class B airspace and traffic in the el monte area. On a direct route from fat; with a significant tailwind it became apparent that it was going to be impossible to descend fast enough to get below the 4000 ft class B shelf south of el monte. The controller suggested a 360 degree turn for descent; but I preferred to simply alter course to the east to descend below the 7000 ft shelf. However; the controller advised me not to continue an eastbound descent due to traffic below me and again suggested to continue the left turn and roll out back on a southeasterly heading el monte toward sna over. I lowered the landing gear to help stay slow in turbulent air in a rapid descent. I am sure the passenger wondered what was going on. It would have been very helpful to have had a flight deck traffic display so I could see exactly where was the traffic below me; then maintain visual separation; and proceed eastbound under the 7000 ft lax class B shelf rather than having to perform a 360 degree turn. Over el monte; I was handed off to another sector. I believe I was handed off once more and then told to maintain 3000 ft until past the fullerton area. At first; I was sure what the controller said; but then realized he said fullerton and I replied with the non standard terminology 'gotcha.' the subject incident occurred at the south boundary of the fullerton class D airspace at 3000 ft heading directly to sna. The controller 'dumped' me telling me radar services terminated and to squawk 1200 just as I was about to descend into the disneyland tfr. I complied and immediately contacted socal on 121.3; the published frequency for the sna class C airspace. That controller gave me a new frequency; and it took considerable time get back into radar contact. The disneyland tfr says ok to penetrate under ATC control; so I was not prepared to deviate around it expecting to be under ATC control. Is 'dumping' an approved ATC procedure seconds before entering a new airspace area? I find it very unprofessional and would like the procedures clarified. What is the appropriate action by a pilot whose intent is well known? Does ATC expect the pilot to make a radical change in course to avoid penetrating airspace he/she had all indications he was cleared to enter? Cannot ATC be required to give a standard minimum time advance warning that a handoff will not be accepted?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C210 INBOUND TO SNA RECEIVED QUESTIONABLE SVC FROM SCT CTLRS RESULTING IN A POSSIBLE TFR VIOLATION.
Narrative: I HAD BEEN RECEIVING RADAR FLT FOLLOWING ON A FLT FROM FAT TO SNA. A SQUAWK WAS ASSIGNED OVER BAKERSFIELD AND SNA WAS IDENTED AS THE DEST ARPT. I RECEIVED CONSIDERABLE ASSISTANCE NAVING AROUND THE CLASS B AIRSPACE AND TFC IN THE EL MONTE AREA. ON A DIRECT RTE FROM FAT; WITH A SIGNIFICANT TAILWIND IT BECAME APPARENT THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DSND FAST ENOUGH TO GET BELOW THE 4000 FT CLASS B SHELF S OF EL MONTE. THE CTLR SUGGESTED A 360 DEG TURN FOR DSCNT; BUT I PREFERRED TO SIMPLY ALTER COURSE TO THE E TO DSND BELOW THE 7000 FT SHELF. HOWEVER; THE CTLR ADVISED ME NOT TO CONTINUE AN EBOUND DSCNT DUE TO TFC BELOW ME AND AGAIN SUGGESTED TO CONTINUE THE L TURN AND ROLL OUT BACK ON A SOUTHEASTERLY HDG EL MONTE TOWARD SNA OVER. I LOWERED THE LNDG GEAR TO HELP STAY SLOW IN TURBULENT AIR IN A RAPID DSCNT. I AM SURE THE PAX WONDERED WHAT WAS GOING ON. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE HAD A FLT DECK TFC DISPLAY SO I COULD SEE EXACTLY WHERE WAS THE TFC BELOW ME; THEN MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION; AND PROCEED EBOUND UNDER THE 7000 FT LAX CLASS B SHELF RATHER THAN HAVING TO PERFORM A 360 DEG TURN. OVER EL MONTE; I WAS HANDED OFF TO ANOTHER SECTOR. I BELIEVE I WAS HANDED OFF ONCE MORE AND THEN TOLD TO MAINTAIN 3000 FT UNTIL PAST THE FULLERTON AREA. AT FIRST; I WAS SURE WHAT THE CTLR SAID; BUT THEN REALIZED HE SAID FULLERTON AND I REPLIED WITH THE NON STANDARD TERMINOLOGY 'GOTCHA.' THE SUBJECT INCIDENT OCCURRED AT THE S BOUNDARY OF THE FULLERTON CLASS D AIRSPACE AT 3000 FT HEADING DIRECTLY TO SNA. THE CTLR 'DUMPED' ME TELLING ME RADAR SVCS TERMINATED AND TO SQUAWK 1200 JUST AS I WAS ABOUT TO DSND INTO THE DISNEYLAND TFR. I COMPLIED AND IMMEDIATELY CONTACTED SOCAL ON 121.3; THE PUBLISHED FREQ FOR THE SNA CLASS C AIRSPACE. THAT CTLR GAVE ME A NEW FREQ; AND IT TOOK CONSIDERABLE TIME GET BACK INTO RADAR CONTACT. THE DISNEYLAND TFR SAYS OK TO PENETRATE UNDER ATC CTL; SO I WAS NOT PREPARED TO DEVIATE AROUND IT EXPECTING TO BE UNDER ATC CTL. IS 'DUMPING' AN APPROVED ATC PROC SECONDS BEFORE ENTERING A NEW AIRSPACE AREA? I FIND IT VERY UNPROFESSIONAL AND WOULD LIKE THE PROCS CLARIFIED. WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE ACTION BY A PLT WHOSE INTENT IS WELL KNOWN? DOES ATC EXPECT THE PLT TO MAKE A RADICAL CHANGE IN COURSE TO AVOID PENETRATING AIRSPACE HE/SHE HAD ALL INDICATIONS HE WAS CLRED TO ENTER? CANNOT ATC BE REQUIRED TO GIVE A STANDARD MINIMUM TIME ADVANCE WARNING THAT A HDOF WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.