37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 722448 |
Time | |
Date | 200612 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Weather Elements | Turbulence |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 25r other other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival star : seavu1 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 14040 flight time type : 1895 |
ASRS Report | 722448 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance Airport ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
On approach to lax flying the seavu one arrival; which is a runway specific arrival; we were given what amounted to three runway changes. We were cleared to cross konzl at 17000 ft and 280 KTS with no runway assignment. When asked we were told the next controller would give us the runway. At 24000 ft; the wind was a direct cross from the north at approximately 140 KTS. And at 12000 ft; it was approximately 90 KTS with occasional moderate turbulence. We first put in the approach for runway 25R for our normal approach. Inside turtle we were given runway 24R and the first officer set up the FMS for the change to runway 24R. In the 5 to 10 seconds it took to set it up we were on top of cataw. With no guidance while the FMS was trying to catch up; the first officer began a turn in heading select knowing the intersection was close. When the route did pop back up we had drifted off the arrival due to the strong crosswind and no guidance. The first officer was correcting back when we were given runway 25R which once again blanked out the guidance. As we were programming the new runway ATC cleared us to krain intersection and after a short silence was nice enough to give us the spelling for krain. We did not have it on the screen as the FMS was again trying to catch up. At the same time I was trying to find it on the approach plate. We told ATC we now had the intersection and he cleared us to krain; follow the glideslope to runway 25R and slow to 180 KTS. We did and continued to a normal landing. This is a complex approach with many intxns and altitude crossing restrictions that change with the runway assignment. The changes occur often and we prepare ourselves knowing this might happen. We in fact discussed this very thing before we started this descent in to lax today. The problem today was getting the assignment and changes far too late along with the unusually strong winds and turbulence.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AIR CARRIER PLT REPORTS THREE RWY CHANGES IN QUICK SUCCESSION ON ARR TO LAX; LEADING TO A TRACK DEV.
Narrative: ON APCH TO LAX FLYING THE SEAVU ONE ARR; WHICH IS A RWY SPECIFIC ARR; WE WERE GIVEN WHAT AMOUNTED TO THREE RWY CHANGES. WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS KONZL AT 17000 FT AND 280 KTS WITH NO RWY ASSIGNMENT. WHEN ASKED WE WERE TOLD THE NEXT CTLR WOULD GIVE US THE RWY. AT 24000 FT; THE WIND WAS A DIRECT CROSS FROM THE NORTH AT APPROX 140 KTS. AND AT 12000 FT; IT WAS APPROX 90 KTS WITH OCCASIONAL MODERATE TURB. WE FIRST PUT IN THE APCH FOR RWY 25R FOR OUR NORMAL APCH. INSIDE TURTLE WE WERE GIVEN RWY 24R AND THE FO SET UP THE FMS FOR THE CHANGE TO RWY 24R. IN THE 5 TO 10 SECONDS IT TOOK TO SET IT UP WE WERE ON TOP OF CATAW. WITH NO GUIDANCE WHILE THE FMS WAS TRYING TO CATCH UP; THE FO BEGAN A TURN IN HDG SELECT KNOWING THE INTXN WAS CLOSE. WHEN THE RTE DID POP BACK UP WE HAD DRIFTED OFF THE ARR DUE TO THE STRONG CROSSWIND AND NO GUIDANCE. THE FO WAS CORRECTING BACK WHEN WE WERE GIVEN RWY 25R WHICH ONCE AGAIN BLANKED OUT THE GUIDANCE. AS WE WERE PROGRAMMING THE NEW RWY ATC CLRED US TO KRAIN INTXN AND AFTER A SHORT SILENCE WAS NICE ENOUGH TO GIVE US THE SPELLING FOR KRAIN. WE DID NOT HAVE IT ON THE SCREEN AS THE FMS WAS AGAIN TRYING TO CATCH UP. AT THE SAME TIME I WAS TRYING TO FIND IT ON THE APCH PLATE. WE TOLD ATC WE NOW HAD THE INTXN AND HE CLRED US TO KRAIN; FOLLOW THE GLIDESLOPE TO RWY 25R AND SLOW TO 180 KTS. WE DID AND CONTINUED TO A NORMAL LNDG. THIS IS A COMPLEX APCH WITH MANY INTXNS AND ALT CROSSING RESTRICTIONS THAT CHANGE WITH THE RWY ASSIGNMENT. THE CHANGES OCCUR OFTEN AND WE PREPARE OURSELVES KNOWING THIS MIGHT HAPPEN. WE IN FACT DISCUSSED THIS VERY THING BEFORE WE STARTED THIS DESCENT IN TO LAX TODAY. THE PROB TODAY WAS GETTING THE ASSIGNMENT AND CHANGES FAR TOO LATE ALONG WITH THE UNUSUALLY STRONG WINDS AND TURB.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.