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Attributes | |
ACN | 764827 |
Time | |
Date | 200712 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
State Reference | US |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Weather Elements | Snow Ice |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : preflight |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 115 flight time type : 115 |
ASRS Report | 764827 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 223 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 764642 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far non adherence : company policies |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Conducted normal preflight. I included a brief exterior inspection upon arrival at gate as first officer arrived just after due to late arriving deadhead flight. Pushed late after fairly expeditious boarding. Nothing significant on taxi out. First officer and I conferred about need to de-ice or not. Both concluded the need did not exist based on visual inspections; reported temperature; and the fact that there was no observable accumulation of precipitation. Departed approximately 15 minutes after pushback on runway 27L; and flight was completely uneventful.supplemental information from acn 764642: after arriving at the aircraft I conducted the preflight exterior inspection. There was a light dusting of snow on the top of the fuselage; nose; and engine cowling. I could not get a good look at the top of the wings from the ground. I don't know if the captain checked the wings from the emergency exit windows (he might have). There was some conversation between the captain and flight attendant about deicing but I don't remember when. I was busy and really don't know what it was about. We taxied out and noticed some aircraft were deicing and some weren't. With the new ATIS; the temperature had risen to above freezing; the windows and nose were clean. We both looked outside at the wings and they looked clean. We agreed the aircraft did not require deicing. We took off without incident. I should have checked the top of the wing from the over wing exits. I should have asked the captain if he checked the wings. If any other employee had concerns; they should have brought it to the captain's attention prior to takeoff.supplemental information from acn 764639: I was a deadheading crewmember on flight from ZZZ. Got onboard without seeing the captain and proceeded to rear of aircraft. Sat next to window (with other deadheading pilot in row behind me next to window also). Noticed there was light snow falling; with some accumulation on windows as well as the wings. The other pilot and I talked about the de-ice location in ZZZ as I had not de-iced there before. Taxied out rather briskly; with both of us assuming we're going to the de-ice pad. After a bit of taxiing; we hear the flight attendant 'chime' for takeoff and the power increasing for takeoff. I turned around in my seat and said to the other pilot; 'we're taking off?' at liftoff; the snow/slush on the front half of wing slid off. Climb out brought maybe 2/3 of snow/slush off of the back half of the wing. The last 1/3 of remaining snow slowly dissipated in cruise. After landing; we spoke to captain in the jetway about deicing in ZZZ and the amount of snow on the wings. He stated that it was above freezing and that we didn't need to de-ice. I told him I'd never seen that much snow on the wings and that I didn't know the airplane would even fly like that. We told him that the passenger and flight attendants were very concerned and we walked off trying to make sense of what just happened. Later on in the terminal while we were waiting for our inbound flight; captain approached me and asked exactly what I'd seen on the wings. I told him it was a lot of snow and that we thought certainly he was going to de-ice; and then before we knew it; we were taking off. He reiterated that it was above freezing and that he didn't think he needed to de-ice.supplemental information from acn 764644: I was a deadheading crewmember on flight from ZZZ. I boarded the aircraft and sat on the first officer's side two rows from the rear. It appeared to me that it was snowing at the time of boarding as the wing was partially covered with approximately 1/4 inch of snow mixed with what appeared to be slush. I might point also that the window I was looking out of was partially obscured with snow and ice.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-300 PLT PERCEIVED THE WINGS FREE OF ICE BEFORE TKOF AND THEREFORE DID NOT DE-ICE. DEADHEADING PLTS RPT SIGNIFICANT WING ICE AT TKOF.
Narrative: CONDUCTED NORMAL PREFLIGHT. I INCLUDED A BRIEF EXTERIOR INSPECTION UPON ARR AT GATE AS FO ARRIVED JUST AFTER DUE TO LATE ARRIVING DEADHEAD FLT. PUSHED LATE AFTER FAIRLY EXPEDITIOUS BOARDING. NOTHING SIGNIFICANT ON TAXI OUT. FO AND I CONFERRED ABOUT NEED TO DE-ICE OR NOT. BOTH CONCLUDED THE NEED DID NOT EXIST BASED ON VISUAL INSPECTIONS; RPTED TEMPERATURE; AND THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO OBSERVABLE ACCUMULATION OF PRECIPITATION. DEPARTED APPROX 15 MINUTES AFTER PUSHBACK ON RWY 27L; AND FLT WAS COMPLETELY UNEVENTFUL.SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 764642: AFTER ARRIVING AT THE ACFT I CONDUCTED THE PREFLT EXTERIOR INSPECTION. THERE WAS A LIGHT DUSTING OF SNOW ON THE TOP OF THE FUSELAGE; NOSE; AND ENGINE COWLING. I COULD NOT GET A GOOD LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE WINGS FROM THE GND. I DON'T KNOW IF THE CAPT CHKED THE WINGS FROM THE EMER EXIT WINDOWS (HE MIGHT HAVE). THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE CAPT AND FLT ATTENDANT ABOUT DEICING BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN. I WAS BUSY AND REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS ABOUT. WE TAXIED OUT AND NOTICED SOME ACFT WERE DEICING AND SOME WEREN'T. WITH THE NEW ATIS; THE TEMPERATURE HAD RISEN TO ABOVE FREEZING; THE WINDOWS AND NOSE WERE CLEAN. WE BOTH LOOKED OUTSIDE AT THE WINGS AND THEY LOOKED CLEAN. WE AGREED THE ACFT DID NOT REQUIRE DEICING. WE TOOK OFF WITHOUT INCIDENT. I SHOULD HAVE CHKED THE TOP OF THE WING FROM THE OVER WING EXITS. I SHOULD HAVE ASKED THE CAPT IF HE CHKED THE WINGS. IF ANY OTHER EMPLOYEE HAD CONCERNS; THEY SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT IT TO THE CAPT'S ATTENTION PRIOR TO TAKEOFF.SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 764639: I WAS A DEADHEADING CREWMEMBER ON FLT FROM ZZZ. GOT ONBOARD WITHOUT SEEING THE CAPT AND PROCEEDED TO REAR OF ACFT. SAT NEXT TO WINDOW (WITH OTHER DEADHEADING PLT IN ROW BEHIND ME NEXT TO WINDOW ALSO). NOTICED THERE WAS LIGHT SNOW FALLING; WITH SOME ACCUMULATION ON WINDOWS AS WELL AS THE WINGS. THE OTHER PLT AND I TALKED ABOUT THE DE-ICE LOCATION IN ZZZ AS I HAD NOT DE-ICED THERE BEFORE. TAXIED OUT RATHER BRISKLY; WITH BOTH OF US ASSUMING WE'RE GOING TO THE DE-ICE PAD. AFTER A BIT OF TAXIING; WE HEAR THE FLT ATTENDANT 'CHIME' FOR TAKEOFF AND THE POWER INCREASING FOR TAKEOFF. I TURNED AROUND IN MY SEAT AND SAID TO THE OTHER PLT; 'WE'RE TAKING OFF?' AT LIFTOFF; THE SNOW/SLUSH ON THE FRONT HALF OF WING SLID OFF. CLBOUT BROUGHT MAYBE 2/3 OF SNOW/SLUSH OFF OF THE BACK HALF OF THE WING. THE LAST 1/3 OF REMAINING SNOW SLOWLY DISSIPATED IN CRUISE. AFTER LNDG; WE SPOKE TO CAPT IN THE JETWAY ABOUT DEICING IN ZZZ AND THE AMOUNT OF SNOW ON THE WINGS. HE STATED THAT IT WAS ABOVE FREEZING AND THAT WE DIDN'T NEED TO DE-ICE. I TOLD HIM I'D NEVER SEEN THAT MUCH SNOW ON THE WINGS AND THAT I DIDN'T KNOW THE AIRPLANE WOULD EVEN FLY LIKE THAT. WE TOLD HIM THAT THE PAX AND FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WERE VERY CONCERNED AND WE WALKED OFF TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT JUST HAPPENED. LATER ON IN THE TERMINAL WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR OUR INBOUND FLT; CAPT APCHED ME AND ASKED EXACTLY WHAT I'D SEEN ON THE WINGS. I TOLD HIM IT WAS A LOT OF SNOW AND THAT WE THOUGHT CERTAINLY HE WAS GOING TO DE-ICE; AND THEN BEFORE WE KNEW IT; WE WERE TAKING OFF. HE REITERATED THAT IT WAS ABOVE FREEZING AND THAT HE DIDN'T THINK HE NEEDED TO DE-ICE.SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 764644: I WAS A DEADHEADING CREWMEMBER ON FLT FROM ZZZ. I BOARDED THE ACFT AND SAT ON THE FO'S SIDE TWO ROWS FROM THE REAR. IT APPEARED TO ME THAT IT WAS SNOWING AT THE TIME OF BOARDING AS THE WING WAS PARTIALLY COVERED WITH APPROX 1/4 INCH OF SNOW MIXED WITH WHAT APPEARED TO BE SLUSH. I MIGHT POINT ALSO THAT THE WINDOW I WAS LOOKING OUT OF WAS PARTIALLY OBSCURED WITH SNOW AND ICE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.