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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 798451 |
Time | |
Date | 200807 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : gpt.airport |
State Reference | MS |
Altitude | msl single value : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : gpt.tracon tower : zzz.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Regional Jet 200 ER&LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change cruise : level |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : radar controller : approach |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Experience | controller radar : 12 |
ASRS Report | 798451 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 798677 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued alert controller : issued new clearance |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 1500 vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Crj turned onto 10 mi final to ILS runway 32 at gpt. Target not talking to approach (fish spotter code) indicating 1200 ft; 3 mi to northwest of crj. Target not talking to approach went onto final and indicated 1500 ft and then 2000 ft. Crj was at 2000 ft. I called traffic; issued safety alert and suggest a 500 ft climb. Crj then executed an RA. The fish spotter aircraft fly on the finals at approach altitude; very dangerous. Class C airspace would fix the problem as they would be required to talk to us. Gpt has a TRSA which does not require them to talk to us. There are only 2 or 3 TRSA facilities left in the country. These should be done away with as aircraft can fly 5 mi from departure/arrival end and not talk to anyone. This is very dangerous at gpt as the fish spotting aircraft do this all the time; fly on arrival/departure paths at altitudes departures and arrs use; and do not talk to anyone. Supplemental information from acn 798677: TCAS RA in IMC on 10 NM final ILS runway 32. WX was 10 SM sct 020. Just before turning right base we observed 2 fish spotter aircraft maneuvering erratically 8 NM offshore. We were vectored onto 12 NM base and entered IMC. We observed 1 aircraft on TCAS at our altitude of 2000 ft. It was 12 NM east of final approach course at 10 NM. When the controller put us on dogleg and cleared us for the ILS runway 32 the traffic turned towards final approach course. The controller issued a TA and then a traffic alert with a climb to 3000 ft. We read back the clearance and added that we were responding to a TCAS RA. While still in IMC the first officer executed the climb well within TCAS RA commands. Vertical speed was off scale up. The threat aircraft appeared to climb nearly 1000 ft on the TCAS display. We climbed to nearly 4000 ft before receiving the clear of conflict aural. We descended back down now in VMC and requested a visual approach. The landing was uneventful. The TCAS designers did not anticipate the possibility of a threat aircraft climbing as fast as it could right at the time the RA directed a climb. We saw this situation coming miles away but there is no standard procedure for horizontal pilot action to an RA or TA. It would have been wise for me to have said something to the controller such as 'request a left deviation due to TCAS observed traffic 4 NM ahead.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: GPT APCH CTLR DESCRIBED CONFLICT EVENT AT 2000 BETWEEN ACR ARR AND FISH SPOTTER ACFT; TFC ISSUED AND TCAS RA RECEIVED; AIRSPACE (TRSA) FAULTED.
Narrative: CRJ TURNED ONTO 10 MI FINAL TO ILS RWY 32 AT GPT. TARGET NOT TALKING TO APCH (FISH SPOTTER CODE) INDICATING 1200 FT; 3 MI TO NW OF CRJ. TARGET NOT TALKING TO APCH WENT ONTO FINAL AND INDICATED 1500 FT AND THEN 2000 FT. CRJ WAS AT 2000 FT. I CALLED TFC; ISSUED SAFETY ALERT AND SUGGEST A 500 FT CLB. CRJ THEN EXECUTED AN RA. THE FISH SPOTTER ACFT FLY ON THE FINALS AT APCH ALT; VERY DANGEROUS. CLASS C AIRSPACE WOULD FIX THE PROB AS THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO TALK TO US. GPT HAS A TRSA WHICH DOES NOT REQUIRE THEM TO TALK TO US. THERE ARE ONLY 2 OR 3 TRSA FACILITIES LEFT IN THE COUNTRY. THESE SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH AS ACFT CAN FLY 5 MI FROM DEP/ARR END AND NOT TALK TO ANYONE. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS AT GPT AS THE FISH SPOTTING ACFT DO THIS ALL THE TIME; FLY ON ARR/DEP PATHS AT ALTS DEPS AND ARRS USE; AND DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 798677: TCAS RA IN IMC ON 10 NM FINAL ILS RWY 32. WX WAS 10 SM SCT 020. JUST BEFORE TURNING R BASE WE OBSERVED 2 FISH SPOTTER ACFT MANEUVERING ERRATICALLY 8 NM OFFSHORE. WE WERE VECTORED ONTO 12 NM BASE AND ENTERED IMC. WE OBSERVED 1 ACFT ON TCAS AT OUR ALT OF 2000 FT. IT WAS 12 NM E OF FINAL APCH COURSE AT 10 NM. WHEN THE CTLR PUT US ON DOGLEG AND CLRED US FOR THE ILS RWY 32 THE TFC TURNED TOWARDS FINAL APCH COURSE. THE CTLR ISSUED A TA AND THEN A TFC ALERT WITH A CLB TO 3000 FT. WE READ BACK THE CLRNC AND ADDED THAT WE WERE RESPONDING TO A TCAS RA. WHILE STILL IN IMC THE FO EXECUTED THE CLB WELL WITHIN TCAS RA COMMANDS. VERT SPD WAS OFF SCALE UP. THE THREAT ACFT APPEARED TO CLB NEARLY 1000 FT ON THE TCAS DISPLAY. WE CLBED TO NEARLY 4000 FT BEFORE RECEIVING THE CLR OF CONFLICT AURAL. WE DSNDED BACK DOWN NOW IN VMC AND REQUESTED A VISUAL APCH. THE LNDG WAS UNEVENTFUL. THE TCAS DESIGNERS DID NOT ANTICIPATE THE POSSIBILITY OF A THREAT ACFT CLBING AS FAST AS IT COULD RIGHT AT THE TIME THE RA DIRECTED A CLB. WE SAW THIS SITUATION COMING MILES AWAY BUT THERE IS NO STANDARD PROC FOR HORIZ PLT ACTION TO AN RA OR TA. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WISE FOR ME TO HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO THE CTLR SUCH AS 'REQUEST A L DEV DUE TO TCAS OBSERVED TFC 4 NM AHEAD.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.