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Widebody transport flight crew uncertain about routing after flipper intersection when flying the flipper 2 (pilot navigation) SID off lax.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 82643 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198802 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 6500 msl bound upper : 6500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors enroute airway : lax enroute airway : zla |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 175 flight time total : 5200 flight time type : 300 |
| ASRS Report | 82643 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
The departure controller issued a 220 degree heading after lax VOR and we complied. Then, a 160 degree heading was issued to intercept the flipper 2 departure SID. We continued on the 160 degree heading as assigned, and upon switching frequencys to lax center, a 110 degree heading was then issued. We then questioned the controller as to what we were supposed to do after flipper intersection, as there is no transition spelled out on the departure. Because there is no text, after getting to flipper intersection, how is a pilot to know what occurs next? This controller remarked that this departure has been flown inconsistently by numerous pilots departing lax, also noting that it is soon to be changed! The departure is vague and misleading. Since the controllers are aware of the confusing nature of this SID, I feel some more precise wording should be used in going from a vector heading than, 'cleared to intercept the flipper 2 departure.' furthermore, there should be included a detailed text to follow after flipper intersection.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: WDB FLT CREW UNCERTAIN ABOUT ROUTING AFTER FLIPPER INTERSECTION WHEN FLYING THE FLIPPER 2 (PLT NAVIGATION) SID OFF LAX.
Narrative: THE DEP CTLR ISSUED A 220 DEG HDG AFTER LAX VOR AND WE COMPLIED. THEN, A 160 DEG HDG WAS ISSUED TO INTERCEPT THE FLIPPER 2 DEP SID. WE CONTINUED ON THE 160 DEG HDG AS ASSIGNED, AND UPON SWITCHING FREQS TO LAX CENTER, A 110 DEG HDG WAS THEN ISSUED. WE THEN QUESTIONED THE CTLR AS TO WHAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO AFTER FLIPPER INTXN, AS THERE IS NO TRANSITION SPELLED OUT ON THE DEP. BECAUSE THERE IS NO TEXT, AFTER GETTING TO FLIPPER INTXN, HOW IS A PLT TO KNOW WHAT OCCURS NEXT? THIS CTLR REMARKED THAT THIS DEP HAS BEEN FLOWN INCONSISTENTLY BY NUMEROUS PLTS DEPARTING LAX, ALSO NOTING THAT IT IS SOON TO BE CHANGED! THE DEP IS VAGUE AND MISLEADING. SINCE THE CTLRS ARE AWARE OF THE CONFUSING NATURE OF THIS SID, I FEEL SOME MORE PRECISE WORDING SHOULD BE USED IN GOING FROM A VECTOR HDG THAN, 'CLRED TO INTERCEPT THE FLIPPER 2 DEP.' FURTHERMORE, THERE SHOULD BE INCLUDED A DETAILED TEXT TO FOLLOW AFTER FLIPPER INTXN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.