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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 85467 |
Time | |
Date | 198804 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : orf |
State Reference | VA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 32000 msl bound upper : 33000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors enroute airway : zdc |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 85467 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 210 |
ASRS Report | 85375 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew faa : investigated |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 22800 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
I had refiled over land on J121 to orf rather than the AR7 route overwater and as previously filed after orf. The clearance read after orf J121 to sie V139 to sardi intersection direct CCC VOR, direct isp. I was flying the aircraft and my copilot was maintaining radio communications with ATC. As I started my turn over orf to the outbnd course of 030 degrees to continue on J121, I heard the center request a turn left to 350 degrees. I continued my turn left through the outbnd course to the 350 degree heading. During the turn center asked if we had started the turn and my copilot responded in the affirmative and asked if we had any traffic. Center replied that the traffic was passing off to our right. There was a query from center as to our DME from orf. My copilot responded that we had just passed orf and stated 'I don't understand.' center then advised that they showed us some 20 mi east of course. I was reading approximately 20 DME northwest of the orf VOR on my navigation set and approximately 58 DME from the swl VOR and almost centered on the 219 degree right on the copilot navigation set. The copilot had switched his set to swl just prior to orf because of a dogleg in J121 42 NM northeast of orf. Center assigned a heading of 020 degrees and we changed center frequencys soon after. The next controller advised us (just prior to handoff to ny center) that we had possibly been involved in a route deviation and we could get further information about it during normal business hours, weekdays and gave a telephone # in washington. This incident occurred on a sat during the first day of a 4 day trip and after several failed attempts I finally made contact with the FAA, at which time I was informed that information had been forwarded from washington center that I had not followed my filed route of flight. I questioned what route they were talking about and I was informed that center showed my flight after orf as V139 and not J121. The route that I had attempted to fly (J121) north of orf was the same route as was filed by my company dispatcher and that which I had filed for in fll. This flight is conducted on a daily basis by my company and the flight plan is center stored. I believe that the route I was flying was correct and as I had filed it. My concern is that this clearance is issued by my company dispatcher and to my knowledge is flown that way everyday. I must surmise then that if ATC is correct and my dispatcher is filing an improper dispatch clearance, then the possibility for a catastrophic incident exists over orf everyday. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter is sure that he was not 20 mi east of course and is also sure that his clearance was via J121 and not V139 as stated by the center during his telephone conversation. Reporter thinks the confusion started when he was cleared on revised route while still on the ground. His new clearance took him over land all the way to orf and then on the same route originally filed by his company. At FL330, it does not seem feasible that the center would think the clearance was via a victor arwy. At the time of this writing, the reporter's safety rep is still checking into the disposition of this incident. Reporter has not heard from FAA about this so called route deviation and the last information received from ZDC was that the tape from this incident was not available for replay. Analyst feels that no conclusion can be drawn as to responsibility in this loss of sep because there is not sufficient information available to make one.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION BETWEEN AN ACR-LGT LEVEL AT FL330 AND A CPR-JET CLIMBING, OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
Narrative: I HAD REFILED OVER LAND ON J121 TO ORF RATHER THAN THE AR7 ROUTE OVERWATER AND AS PREVIOUSLY FILED AFTER ORF. THE CLRNC READ AFTER ORF J121 TO SIE V139 TO SARDI INTXN DIRECT CCC VOR, DIRECT ISP. I WAS FLYING THE ACFT AND MY COPLT WAS MAINTAINING RADIO COMS WITH ATC. AS I STARTED MY TURN OVER ORF TO THE OUTBND COURSE OF 030 DEGS TO CONTINUE ON J121, I HEARD THE CENTER REQUEST A TURN LEFT TO 350 DEGS. I CONTINUED MY TURN LEFT THROUGH THE OUTBND COURSE TO THE 350 DEG HDG. DURING THE TURN CENTER ASKED IF WE HAD STARTED THE TURN AND MY COPLT RESPONDED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND ASKED IF WE HAD ANY TFC. CENTER REPLIED THAT THE TFC WAS PASSING OFF TO OUR RIGHT. THERE WAS A QUERY FROM CENTER AS TO OUR DME FROM ORF. MY COPLT RESPONDED THAT WE HAD JUST PASSED ORF AND STATED 'I DON'T UNDERSTAND.' CENTER THEN ADVISED THAT THEY SHOWED US SOME 20 MI E OF COURSE. I WAS READING APPROX 20 DME NW OF THE ORF VOR ON MY NAV SET AND APPROX 58 DME FROM THE SWL VOR AND ALMOST CENTERED ON THE 219 DEG R ON THE COPLT NAV SET. THE COPLT HAD SWITCHED HIS SET TO SWL JUST PRIOR TO ORF BECAUSE OF A DOGLEG IN J121 42 NM NE OF ORF. CENTER ASSIGNED A HDG OF 020 DEGS AND WE CHANGED CENTER FREQS SOON AFTER. THE NEXT CTLR ADVISED US (JUST PRIOR TO HDOF TO NY CENTER) THAT WE HAD POSSIBLY BEEN INVOLVED IN A ROUTE DEVIATION AND WE COULD GET FURTHER INFO ABOUT IT DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HRS, WEEKDAYS AND GAVE A TELEPHONE # IN WASHINGTON. THIS INCIDENT OCCURRED ON A SAT DURING THE FIRST DAY OF A 4 DAY TRIP AND AFTER SEVERAL FAILED ATTEMPTS I FINALLY MADE CONTACT WITH THE FAA, AT WHICH TIME I WAS INFORMED THAT INFO HAD BEEN FORWARDED FROM WASHINGTON CENTER THAT I HAD NOT FOLLOWED MY FILED ROUTE OF FLT. I QUESTIONED WHAT ROUTE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT AND I WAS INFORMED THAT CENTER SHOWED MY FLT AFTER ORF AS V139 AND NOT J121. THE ROUTE THAT I HAD ATTEMPTED TO FLY (J121) N OF ORF WAS THE SAME ROUTE AS WAS FILED BY MY COMPANY DISPATCHER AND THAT WHICH I HAD FILED FOR IN FLL. THIS FLT IS CONDUCTED ON A DAILY BASIS BY MY COMPANY AND THE FLT PLAN IS CENTER STORED. I BELIEVE THAT THE ROUTE I WAS FLYING WAS CORRECT AND AS I HAD FILED IT. MY CONCERN IS THAT THIS CLRNC IS ISSUED BY MY COMPANY DISPATCHER AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE IS FLOWN THAT WAY EVERYDAY. I MUST SURMISE THEN THAT IF ATC IS CORRECT AND MY DISPATCHER IS FILING AN IMPROPER DISPATCH CLRNC, THEN THE POSSIBILITY FOR A CATASTROPHIC INCIDENT EXISTS OVER ORF EVERYDAY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR IS SURE THAT HE WAS NOT 20 MI E OF COURSE AND IS ALSO SURE THAT HIS CLRNC WAS VIA J121 AND NOT V139 AS STATED BY THE CENTER DURING HIS TELEPHONE CONVERSATION. RPTR THINKS THE CONFUSION STARTED WHEN HE WAS CLRED ON REVISED ROUTE WHILE STILL ON THE GND. HIS NEW CLRNC TOOK HIM OVER LAND ALL THE WAY TO ORF AND THEN ON THE SAME ROUTE ORIGINALLY FILED BY HIS COMPANY. AT FL330, IT DOES NOT SEEM FEASIBLE THAT THE CENTER WOULD THINK THE CLRNC WAS VIA A VICTOR ARWY. AT THE TIME OF THIS WRITING, THE RPTR'S SAFETY REP IS STILL CHKING INTO THE DISPOSITION OF THIS INCIDENT. RPTR HAS NOT HEARD FROM FAA ABOUT THIS SO CALLED ROUTE DEVIATION AND THE LAST INFO RECEIVED FROM ZDC WAS THAT THE TAPE FROM THIS INCIDENT WAS NOT AVAILABLE FOR REPLAY. ANALYST FEELS THAT NO CONCLUSION CAN BE DRAWN AS TO RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS LOSS OF SEP BECAUSE THERE IS NOT SUFFICIENT INFO AVAILABLE TO MAKE ONE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.