Narrative:

The C560 was filed to sdl but when he came over from ZLA he explained that he was originally supposed to go to phx but tmu was going to delay him on the ground so he said that he would go to sdl and if we could work it out he would like to go to phx. We already had three phx arrivals on the north stream and one from the south stream that was tied with the first one from the north. The C560 was 4 miles behind the first arrival from the north. We called tmu and they said to let the C560 go to phx. We knew that if we were to let him go that we would have lots of work to do to fit him into the stream. The r-side trainer decided to let him go and that it would be a great training opportunity. The r-side trainee vectored the C560 to the south to put him behind the B752. The vector was not enough and it took a long time to get the required separation. When the C560 was turned back toward the arrival we realized that we still were not going to have 5 miles so he was turned 20L. That vector was not going to happen quick enough so we called the traffic and the pilot reported the B752 in sight at 110. The trainee told the C560 to maintain visual separation. My d-side trainee called the phx arrival sector and tried to get them to take the hand off and they told us to spin him since we only had 4 miles. My trainee told them that we were using visual and I thought that they said 'radar'. After listening to the tapes afterwards; I realized that the controller just said his initials. We told the r-sides that they had radar and they shipped him to approach. Recommendation; the r-sides should have fanned out the arrivals more to create the separation faster. We should not have tried to squeeze him into a hole but should have spun him one three sixty and put him at the back of the pack.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ZAB Reporters described a visual separation application involving a B757 aircraft dispute between ZAB and P50 Controllers/Supervisors; regarding clarification of visual separation in the enroute environment.

Narrative: The C560 was filed to SDL but when he came over from ZLA he explained that he was originally supposed to go to PHX but TMU was going to delay him on the ground so he said that he would go to SDL and if we could work it out he would like to go to PHX. We already had three PHX arrivals on the north stream and one from the south stream that was tied with the first one from the north. The C560 was 4 miles behind the first arrival from the north. We called TMU and they said to let the C560 go to PHX. We knew that if we were to let him go that we would have lots of work to do to fit him into the stream. The R-Side trainer decided to let him go and that it would be a great training opportunity. The R-Side trainee vectored the C560 to the south to put him behind the B752. The vector was not enough and it took a long time to get the required separation. When the C560 was turned back toward the arrival we realized that we still were not going to have 5 miles so he was turned 20L. That vector was not going to happen quick enough so we called the traffic and the pilot reported the B752 in sight at 110. The trainee told the C560 to maintain visual separation. My D-Side trainee called the PHX arrival sector and tried to get them to take the hand off and they told us to spin him since we only had 4 miles. My trainee told them that we were using visual and I thought that they said 'RADAR'. After listening to the tapes afterwards; I realized that the Controller just said his initials. We told the R-Sides that they had RADAR and they shipped him to approach. Recommendation; the R-Sides should have fanned out the arrivals more to create the separation faster. We should not have tried to squeeze him into a hole but should have spun him one three sixty and put him at the back of the pack.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.