37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 96771 |
Time | |
Date | 198810 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : elm |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2400 msl bound upper : 2400 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 96671 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight pit-elm was late arriving to elm. The airport's tower was due to close and we had reported the airport in sight for a visual approach to center. At approximately 23:00 local time we keyed the transmitter on 121.1 to give us the approach and runway lights as indicated on our company's airport advisory page and the approach plate (facility page). The approach and runway lights came on a full intensity then, a split-second later, the runway lights appeared to dim. I didn't think much of this at the time and on short approach we had to dim the approach lights also. At this point we realized the runway lights didn't dim--they were off, along with all the taxiway lights. With the aircraft landing lights on the runway markings (24, centerline, distance marker, etc) were visible. We were on localizer, on G/south, on speed. All the numbers were correct. I was familiar with the airport, I knew exactly where to go and how to get there after I touched down, so I landed. On the way to the gate, thinking out loud, I said, 'what the @@*!! Is going on here?!' after a short discussion it was evident to me that the first officer agreed that we were safe to land, but felt also we violated an far. After some research, I still disagree that there was a violation on our part. But, I do question the ability of the facility operator who would (knowing a scheduled arrival is due in soon) turn off the entire airport lighting system, leaving the beacon light on! Anyhow, I walked off the airplane and jokingly asked if the county was paying its electric bill. A fueler asked why, then offered the information that to get runway and taxi lights we should have called 122.4, the local FSS. Here is where I fail the NASA system. I do not have a recommendation as to how this particular situation could have been avoided--this particular night. NOTAMS indicated nothing about runway and taxi lighting having to be requested on 122.4. The back side of elm approach plate 11-1 say 'HIRL 0'. The foot note is key 121.1 for lights. We cancelled our IFR with center, so we didn't have to use elm radio or FSS. We had already monitored the ATIS frequency and received the latest available WX. My recommendation is this: if the local FSS has to play games with the runway and taxi lights to justify their existence then along with all the other airport classification, classify such airports as 'mother may I?'south' this will then signify to the pilot that he/she will have to ask 'mother may I?' on all 360 channels before deplaning. If someone is listening they might pull the pungi sticks before we hop off!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LANDED WITHOUT USE OF RWY LIGHTS.
Narrative: FLT PIT-ELM WAS LATE ARRIVING TO ELM. THE ARPT'S TWR WAS DUE TO CLOSE AND WE HAD RPTED THE ARPT IN SIGHT FOR A VISUAL APCH TO CENTER. AT APPROX 23:00 LCL TIME WE KEYED THE XMITTER ON 121.1 TO GIVE US THE APCH AND RWY LIGHTS AS INDICATED ON OUR COMPANY'S ARPT ADVISORY PAGE AND THE APCH PLATE (FAC PAGE). THE APCH AND RWY LIGHTS CAME ON A FULL INTENSITY THEN, A SPLIT-SECOND LATER, THE RWY LIGHTS APPEARED TO DIM. I DIDN'T THINK MUCH OF THIS AT THE TIME AND ON SHORT APCH WE HAD TO DIM THE APCH LIGHTS ALSO. AT THIS POINT WE REALIZED THE RWY LIGHTS DIDN'T DIM--THEY WERE OFF, ALONG WITH ALL THE TXWY LIGHTS. WITH THE ACFT LNDG LIGHTS ON THE RWY MARKINGS (24, CENTERLINE, DISTANCE MARKER, ETC) WERE VISIBLE. WE WERE ON LOC, ON G/S, ON SPD. ALL THE NUMBERS WERE CORRECT. I WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE ARPT, I KNEW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO AND HOW TO GET THERE AFTER I TOUCHED DOWN, SO I LANDED. ON THE WAY TO THE GATE, THINKING OUT LOUD, I SAID, 'WHAT THE @@*!! IS GOING ON HERE?!' AFTER A SHORT DISCUSSION IT WAS EVIDENT TO ME THAT THE F/O AGREED THAT WE WERE SAFE TO LAND, BUT FELT ALSO WE VIOLATED AN FAR. AFTER SOME RESEARCH, I STILL DISAGREE THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION ON OUR PART. BUT, I DO QUESTION THE ABILITY OF THE FAC OPERATOR WHO WOULD (KNOWING A SCHEDULED ARR IS DUE IN SOON) TURN OFF THE ENTIRE ARPT LIGHTING SYS, LEAVING THE BEACON LIGHT ON! ANYHOW, I WALKED OFF THE AIRPLANE AND JOKINGLY ASKED IF THE COUNTY WAS PAYING ITS ELECTRIC BILL. A FUELER ASKED WHY, THEN OFFERED THE INFO THAT TO GET RWY AND TAXI LIGHTS WE SHOULD HAVE CALLED 122.4, THE LCL FSS. HERE IS WHERE I FAIL THE NASA SYS. I DO NOT HAVE A RECOMMENDATION AS TO HOW THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED--THIS PARTICULAR NIGHT. NOTAMS INDICATED NOTHING ABOUT RWY AND TAXI LIGHTING HAVING TO BE REQUESTED ON 122.4. THE BACK SIDE OF ELM APCH PLATE 11-1 SAY 'HIRL 0'. THE FOOT NOTE IS KEY 121.1 FOR LIGHTS. WE CANCELLED OUR IFR WITH CENTER, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO USE ELM RADIO OR FSS. WE HAD ALREADY MONITORED THE ATIS FREQ AND RECEIVED THE LATEST AVAILABLE WX. MY RECOMMENDATION IS THIS: IF THE LCL FSS HAS TO PLAY GAMES WITH THE RWY AND TAXI LIGHTS TO JUSTIFY THEIR EXISTENCE THEN ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER ARPT CLASSIFICATION, CLASSIFY SUCH ARPTS AS 'MOTHER MAY I?'S' THIS WILL THEN SIGNIFY TO THE PLT THAT HE/SHE WILL HAVE TO ASK 'MOTHER MAY I?' ON ALL 360 CHANNELS BEFORE DEPLANING. IF SOMEONE IS LISTENING THEY MIGHT PULL THE PUNGI STICKS BEFORE WE HOP OFF!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.