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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 101607 |
Time | |
Date | 198901 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1000 msl bound upper : 11000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dfw tower : mdw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 101607 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 22 flight time total : 2225 flight time type : 22 |
ASRS Report | 101613 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Airport |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I'm sick and tired of irresponsible and unprofessional handling by approach controllers. All along the STAR we were told to keep our speed up, specifically, not to slow to 250 KTS until the last minute on the scurry 9 to dfw. We were told to fly 290 degrees after refil for vectors over the top of dfw. We understood that we were to also keep the speed up. The frequency got so busy that aircraft were told to acknowledge only by identify. We were switched to another controller, and told to descend from 11000 to 7000'. Then we were turned to 360 degrees (we descended at idle with speed brakes extended). We were switched to yet another controller and told to descend to 5000'. We were downwind abeam the approach end of runway 18R. We asked the controller what speed he wanted. It was obvious we were going to get a tight turn to final. He said, after some hesitation, no more than 210 KTS. Well, I tried for 180 KTS but he turned us to 090 degrees and told us to descend to 3000' and asked to call the airport for a visibility. I extended the gear and flaps at maximum extension speeds to expedite. We were well above 2 dots high on the G/south. We realized that we had to call the field when he gave us a 150 degree heading (straight to the runway). We squawked the approach and were on G/south at 1000', but 50 KTS fast. I should have gone around. Next time I will. I think it's time to eliminate controller initiated visuals. Vectors go down the tubes--all they want to do is dump you. Supplemental information from acn 101613: I believe the problem occurred because approach control had told us we were #1 for the approach and that we should maintain 250 KTS. That made us feel the controller would notify us when he wanted us to slow. We finally requested to slow, but that was after we had passed refil.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LGT COMPLAINT ABOUT APCH PROC USED AT DFW.
Narrative: I'M SICK AND TIRED OF IRRESPONSIBLE AND UNPROFESSIONAL HANDLING BY APCH CTLRS. ALL ALONG THE STAR WE WERE TOLD TO KEEP OUR SPD UP, SPECIFICALLY, NOT TO SLOW TO 250 KTS UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE ON THE SCURRY 9 TO DFW. WE WERE TOLD TO FLY 290 DEGS AFTER REFIL FOR VECTORS OVER THE TOP OF DFW. WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE WERE TO ALSO KEEP THE SPD UP. THE FREQ GOT SO BUSY THAT ACFT WERE TOLD TO ACKNOWLEDGE ONLY BY IDENT. WE WERE SWITCHED TO ANOTHER CTLR, AND TOLD TO DSND FROM 11000 TO 7000'. THEN WE WERE TURNED TO 360 DEGS (WE DSNDED AT IDLE WITH SPD BRAKES EXTENDED). WE WERE SWITCHED TO YET ANOTHER CTLR AND TOLD TO DSND TO 5000'. WE WERE DOWNWIND ABEAM THE APCH END OF RWY 18R. WE ASKED THE CTLR WHAT SPD HE WANTED. IT WAS OBVIOUS WE WERE GOING TO GET A TIGHT TURN TO FINAL. HE SAID, AFTER SOME HESITATION, NO MORE THAN 210 KTS. WELL, I TRIED FOR 180 KTS BUT HE TURNED US TO 090 DEGS AND TOLD US TO DSND TO 3000' AND ASKED TO CALL THE ARPT FOR A VIS. I EXTENDED THE GEAR AND FLAPS AT MAX EXTENSION SPDS TO EXPEDITE. WE WERE WELL ABOVE 2 DOTS HIGH ON THE G/S. WE REALIZED THAT WE HAD TO CALL THE FIELD WHEN HE GAVE US A 150 DEG HDG (STRAIGHT TO THE RWY). WE SQUAWKED THE APCH AND WERE ON G/S AT 1000', BUT 50 KTS FAST. I SHOULD HAVE GONE AROUND. NEXT TIME I WILL. I THINK IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE CTLR INITIATED VISUALS. VECTORS GO DOWN THE TUBES--ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS DUMP YOU. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 101613: I BELIEVE THE PROB OCCURRED BECAUSE APCH CTL HAD TOLD US WE WERE #1 FOR THE APCH AND THAT WE SHOULD MAINTAIN 250 KTS. THAT MADE US FEEL THE CTLR WOULD NOTIFY US WHEN HE WANTED US TO SLOW. WE FINALLY REQUESTED TO SLOW, BUT THAT WAS AFTER WE HAD PASSED REFIL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.