Air carrier medium large transport overshot crossing restriction altitude on profile descent.

Attributes
ACN	104642
Time
Date	198902
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : fim
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 13000 msl bound upper : 15000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	descent other
Route In Use	arrival : profile descent
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 2500
ASRS Report	104642
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 15000
ASRS Report	104550
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

Center cleared air carrier flight on 24/25 profile descent with lax from derbb intersection. I was first officer and flying, the captain was on radio to company. I started the descent but, I was on the sadde 4 descent profile. On that profile descent there is no altitude restriction until symon intersection where it is 17000/280 KTS. I reached 13000' at fim and was informed I had missed my altitude at fim. When the captain and I started discussing this we became aware that I was mistaken in my assumption as to which profile I was on. Upon further review we determined that we thought there were too many profiles with the same navaids on them that should be incorporated into one because of the confusion. It is too easy to get on one approach and think you are complying when, in fact, you are on another approach that can lead to a violation.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR MLG OVERSHOT CROSSING RESTRICTION ALT ON PROFILE DESCENT.

Narrative: CENTER CLRED ACR FLT ON 24/25 PROFILE DSCNT WITH LAX FROM DERBB INTXN. I WAS F/O AND FLYING, THE CAPT WAS ON RADIO TO COMPANY. I STARTED THE DSCNT BUT, I WAS ON THE SADDE 4 DSCNT PROFILE. ON THAT PROFILE DSCNT THERE IS NO ALT RESTRICTION UNTIL SYMON INTXN WHERE IT IS 17000/280 KTS. I REACHED 13000' AT FIM AND WAS INFORMED I HAD MISSED MY ALT AT FIM. WHEN THE CAPT AND I STARTED DISCUSSING THIS WE BECAME AWARE THAT I WAS MISTAKEN IN MY ASSUMPTION AS TO WHICH PROFILE I WAS ON. UPON FURTHER REVIEW WE DETERMINED THAT WE THOUGHT THERE WERE TOO MANY PROFILES WITH THE SAME NAVAIDS ON THEM THAT SHOULD BE INCORPORATED INTO ONE BECAUSE OF THE CONFUSION. IT IS TOO EASY TO GET ON ONE APCH AND THINK YOU ARE COMPLYING WHEN, IN FACT, YOU ARE ON ANOTHER APCH THAT CAN LEAD TO A VIOLATION.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.