37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1065981 |
Time | |
Date | 201302 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZDV.ARTCC |
State Reference | CO |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Learjet 45 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Military |
Route In Use | None |
Person 1 | |
Function | Enroute |
Qualification | Air Traffic Control Fully Certified |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types |
Narrative:
I was working denver center ZDV sector 24 combined with sector 23 FL270 and up. A lear 45 was westbound to las at FL430 and would soon be descended to FL320 as per our letter of agreement with ZLA for las landing traffic. The lear 45 pilot asked about traffic at his 11 o'clock and 20 miles 5;000 ft below flying in tight circles. I had no traffic in that location or anybody holding or circling. I identified to the lear one aircraft at his 12 o'clock and two others in his 9 o'clock (one of which was at FL380). I also 'quick looked' the low altitude (FL260 and below) below my sector and found no traffic there. During this event; the lear reported both 'painting' this mystery aircraft as well as identifying it visually. The pilot reported that it looked like an F22 or F35. I had the two aircraft which were south of the lear look also; however neither saw anything visually nor on their TCAS. This caused a fairly casual session on sector to become difficult quite quickly. I still had to work the rest of the sector and aircraft. Now I was fairly busy trying to locate and identify an aircraft in my sector that were not displaying or talking to me. In addition; I needed to descend this lear for his landing at las through the altitude of this mysterious craft. It made for an uncomfortable and potentially unsafe situation. The pilot said he thought this other ship looked like a small fighter jet such as a F22 or F35. I understand that the military might want to conduct 'top secret' missions of flying through our airspace and don't want us to know. I can only assume that if that is what they were doing; they should be staying out of the way. However; an airliner and controller stumbling onto that flight is a situation that obviously can happen. If the military doesn't want to share what they are doing; we should at least have some type of procedures; rules; and training on what to do if a pilot suddenly asks about a mysterious aircraft that doesn't appear to be there. Perhaps a way to quickly confirm that this 'surprise' aircraft was indeed under it's own special program so that we don't have to worry about it anymore. That would differ from still trying to identify someone flying where they shouldn't be. Obviously; safety is the concern. No collisions between unknown aircraft; no overloading of a sector trying to identify an unknown situation or aircraft when others are in full knowledge of the situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LR45 crew informed ZDV Controller of traffic ahead and below that appeared to be conducting tight circling maneuvers; the Controller did not observe any traffic on the RADAR display.
Narrative: I was working Denver Center ZDV Sector 24 combined with Sector 23 FL270 and up. A Lear 45 was westbound to LAS at FL430 and would soon be descended to FL320 as per our Letter of Agreement with ZLA for LAS landing traffic. The Lear 45 pilot asked about traffic at his 11 o'clock and 20 miles 5;000 FT below flying in tight circles. I had no traffic in that location or anybody holding or circling. I identified to the Lear one aircraft at his 12 o'clock and two others in his 9 o'clock (one of which was at FL380). I also 'quick looked' the low altitude (FL260 and below) below my sector and found no traffic there. During this event; the Lear reported both 'painting' this mystery aircraft as well as identifying it visually. The pilot reported that it looked like an F22 or F35. I had the two aircraft which were south of the Lear look also; however neither saw anything visually nor on their TCAS. This caused a fairly casual session on sector to become difficult quite quickly. I still had to work the rest of the sector and aircraft. Now I was fairly busy trying to locate and identify an aircraft in my sector that were not displaying or talking to me. In addition; I needed to descend this Lear for his landing at LAS through the altitude of this mysterious craft. It made for an uncomfortable and potentially unsafe situation. The pilot said he thought this other ship looked like a small fighter jet such as a F22 or F35. I understand that the military might want to conduct 'top secret' missions of flying through our airspace and don't want us to know. I can only assume that if that is what they were doing; they should be staying out of the way. However; an airliner and controller stumbling onto that flight is a situation that obviously can happen. If the military doesn't want to share what they are doing; we should at least have some type of procedures; rules; and training on what to do if a pilot suddenly asks about a mysterious aircraft that doesn't appear to be there. Perhaps a way to quickly confirm that this 'surprise' aircraft was indeed under it's own special program so that we don't have to worry about it anymore. That would differ from still trying to identify someone flying where they shouldn't be. Obviously; safety is the concern. No collisions between unknown aircraft; no overloading of a sector trying to identify an unknown situation or aircraft when others are in full knowledge of the situation.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.