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Attributes | |
ACN | 143785 |
Time | |
Date | 199004 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : las |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zkc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 143785 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified cockpit |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
After pushing back from gate 24A, the ground controller apparently told us to taxi to runway 25 via the ramp and exit to the outer at juliet taxiway. As we came abeam the taxiway transitioning to the outer at slow taxi speed, the ground controller immediately reminded us that we were cleared via the inner to juliet taxiway. There was no traffic conflict, however, contributing to the confusion was the ongoing conversation between the controller and us regarding our request to use runway 07 for departure. The winds were 150 degree at 13 KTS, and we had experienced a 5-8 KT loss in airspeed on landing, upon our earlier landing in las. 'Safety alert' -- the controller advised us that runway 25 was in use, due to noise abatement. Since our takeoff weight on runway 25 was close to the limit, I requested runway 7 for operational considerations. The controller then indicated that 'it would be a substantial delay' to use runway 7, even though the wind favored runway 07, and the high density altitude (85 degree F) also favored a much safer operation taking off to the east. We were forced to depart to the west. Operational and safety requirements have taken 'a back seat' to controller and airport management whims. When the winds are calm, or favor runway 07, we should land and depart on runway 07, due to the high terrain requirements to the west, especially when windshear dictates the use of runway 07. But, the 'preferred by controllers' runway at las, seems to be runway 25, despite all other safety needs and indications. The controllers see to it that they 'penalize' pilots who ask for runway 07, by making them take 40 minute delays because their aircraft is too heavy for runway 25, or winds or density altitude dictate the use of runway 07.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RWY IN USE WAS 25. REPORTER REQUESTED 07. DELAY FOR OPPOSITE DIRECTION TKOF JUDGED BY REPORTER TO BE A DELIBERATE PENALTY WILLFULLY IMPOSED BY TWR CTLR.
Narrative: AFTER PUSHING BACK FROM GATE 24A, THE GND CTLR APPARENTLY TOLD US TO TAXI TO RWY 25 VIA THE RAMP AND EXIT TO THE OUTER AT JULIET TXWY. AS WE CAME ABEAM THE TXWY TRANSITIONING TO THE OUTER AT SLOW TAXI SPEED, THE GND CTLR IMMEDIATELY REMINDED US THAT WE WERE CLRED VIA THE INNER TO JULIET TXWY. THERE WAS NO TFC CONFLICT, HOWEVER, CONTRIBUTING TO THE CONFUSION WAS THE ONGOING CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE CTLR AND US REGARDING OUR REQUEST TO USE RWY 07 FOR DEP. THE WINDS WERE 150 DEG AT 13 KTS, AND WE HAD EXPERIENCED A 5-8 KT LOSS IN AIRSPEED ON LNDG, UPON OUR EARLIER LNDG IN LAS. 'SAFETY ALERT' -- THE CTLR ADVISED US THAT RWY 25 WAS IN USE, DUE TO NOISE ABATEMENT. SINCE OUR TKOF WEIGHT ON RWY 25 WAS CLOSE TO THE LIMIT, I REQUESTED RWY 7 FOR OPERATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS. THE CTLR THEN INDICATED THAT 'IT WOULD BE A SUBSTANTIAL DELAY' TO USE RWY 7, EVEN THOUGH THE WIND FAVORED RWY 07, AND THE HIGH DENSITY ALT (85 DEG F) ALSO FAVORED A MUCH SAFER OPERATION TAKING OFF TO THE E. WE WERE FORCED TO DEPART TO THE W. OPERATIONAL AND SAFETY REQUIREMENTS HAVE TAKEN 'A BACK SEAT' TO CTLR AND ARPT MGMNT WHIMS. WHEN THE WINDS ARE CALM, OR FAVOR RWY 07, WE SHOULD LAND AND DEPART ON RWY 07, DUE TO THE HIGH TERRAIN REQUIREMENTS TO THE W, ESPECIALLY WHEN WINDSHEAR DICTATES THE USE OF RWY 07. BUT, THE 'PREFERRED BY CTLRS' RWY AT LAS, SEEMS TO BE RWY 25, DESPITE ALL OTHER SAFETY NEEDS AND INDICATIONS. THE CTLRS SEE TO IT THAT THEY 'PENALIZE' PLTS WHO ASK FOR RWY 07, BY MAKING THEM TAKE 40 MINUTE DELAYS BECAUSE THEIR ACFT IS TOO HEAVY FOR RWY 25, OR WINDS OR DENSITY ALT DICTATE THE USE OF RWY 07.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.