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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 152848 |
Time | |
Date | 199008 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : elp |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 31000 msl bound upper : 31000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zab |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : j86 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 152848 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 3200 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 153116 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : exited penetrated airspace flight crew : declared emergency other |
Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
Climbing out of el paso approximately 60 NM northwest of el paso, it became obvious to me and the first officer that a deviation from J86 would be necessary to avoid thunderstorms. First officer requested a deviation west and direct winslow when able. The deviation and direct winslow was granted. The same controller had previously cleared us to FL350; we had accepted but were calculating our speed margins for our weight and had decided to stop climb at FL310. Prior to our request, the controller on 133.72 had us stop climb at FL310 and change frequency to 133.0. At the time we changed frequencys we were level at FL310 and had turned to a more westerly heading, approximately 290 degree to 300 degree which was a direct result of a heading change to pass the cells to the west by 20 NM; the minimum necessary. Checking on 133.0, the controller said to turn right to 360 degree and made reference to an active military area we would penetrate. That heading would send us directly to the cell. The first officer echoed my reply to ATC, 'unable'. The controller replied with 'make a 180 degree turn.' the controller may have meant or may have said to turn to 180 degree but in any case my intent was to comply. I began a left turn and motioned to first officer that I would reply. I told the controller that we did not mean to be uncooperative, we could not turn due to WX and that 'aircraft was turning left to' 130 degree. The controller said neg to the left turn; turn right. I replied unable. The controller said we would have to declare an emergency at which I replied ok will declare an emergency. The controller made no significant reply directly but began vectoring military aircraft and coordination with civilian aircraft seemingly behind us trying to avoid WX as well. I remained on a northerly heading avoiding the WX by minimum distance. We rejoined J86 prior to winslow. We were given a frequency change and before we switched I asked the controller on 133.0 if he had marked our position where we declared an emergency. He said he had not but gave me a phone number to call. I contacted abq center supervisor and she stated facts were being gathered for a possible pilot deviation. He also stated that the tapes would be reviewed and to call monday and to ask for manager for results of evaluation to that point. I gave a short synopsis of my interpretation of the occurrence, and reiterated my intent not to be uncooperative; as well as company pilots general intend to be cooperative! In short, I accepted and declared an emergency to deviation from a controllers request so as not to endanger the safety of the aircraft and passengers by flying in or too near thunderstorm activity. An additional fact is that the controller on 133.72 made no mention of a possible conflict with military aircraft by deviating south of J86. It is true that he had given us FL350 and we had accepted, but it is also true that he had us stop our cl at FL310, then handed us off to 133.0.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG TRACK HEADING DEVIATION TO AVOID TSTM ACTIVITY PENETRATED MOA THAT INDICATES A CEILING OF 18000'. ACFT WAS AT FL310 AT THE TIME.
Narrative: CLBING OUT OF EL PASO APPROX 60 NM NW OF EL PASO, IT BECAME OBVIOUS TO ME AND THE F/O THAT A DEV FROM J86 WOULD BE NECESSARY TO AVOID TSTMS. F/O REQUESTED A DEV W AND DIRECT WINSLOW WHEN ABLE. THE DEV AND DIRECT WINSLOW WAS GRANTED. THE SAME CTLR HAD PREVIOUSLY CLRED US TO FL350; WE HAD ACCEPTED BUT WERE CALCULATING OUR SPD MARGINS FOR OUR WT AND HAD DECIDED TO STOP CLB AT FL310. PRIOR TO OUR REQUEST, THE CTLR ON 133.72 HAD US STOP CLB AT FL310 AND CHANGE FREQ TO 133.0. AT THE TIME WE CHANGED FREQS WE WERE LEVEL AT FL310 AND HAD TURNED TO A MORE WESTERLY HDG, APPROX 290 DEG TO 300 DEG WHICH WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF A HDG CHANGE TO PASS THE CELLS TO THE W BY 20 NM; THE MINIMUM NECESSARY. CHKING ON 133.0, THE CTLR SAID TO TURN R TO 360 DEG AND MADE REFERENCE TO AN ACTIVE MIL AREA WE WOULD PENETRATE. THAT HDG WOULD SEND US DIRECTLY TO THE CELL. THE F/O ECHOED MY REPLY TO ATC, 'UNABLE'. THE CTLR REPLIED WITH 'MAKE A 180 DEG TURN.' THE CTLR MAY HAVE MEANT OR MAY HAVE SAID TO TURN TO 180 DEG BUT IN ANY CASE MY INTENT WAS TO COMPLY. I BEGAN A L TURN AND MOTIONED TO F/O THAT I WOULD REPLY. I TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE DID NOT MEAN TO BE UNCOOPERATIVE, WE COULD NOT TURN DUE TO WX AND THAT 'ACFT WAS TURNING L TO' 130 DEG. THE CTLR SAID NEG TO THE L TURN; TURN R. I REPLIED UNABLE. THE CTLR SAID WE WOULD HAVE TO DECLARE AN EMER AT WHICH I REPLIED OK WILL DECLARE AN EMER. THE CTLR MADE NO SIGNIFICANT REPLY DIRECTLY BUT BEGAN VECTORING MIL ACFT AND COORD WITH CIVILIAN ACFT SEEMINGLY BEHIND US TRYING TO AVOID WX AS WELL. I REMAINED ON A NORTHERLY HDG AVOIDING THE WX BY MINIMUM DISTANCE. WE REJOINED J86 PRIOR TO WINSLOW. WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE AND BEFORE WE SWITCHED I ASKED THE CTLR ON 133.0 IF HE HAD MARKED OUR POS WHERE WE DECLARED AN EMER. HE SAID HE HAD NOT BUT GAVE ME A PHONE NUMBER TO CALL. I CONTACTED ABQ CTR SUPVR AND SHE STATED FACTS WERE BEING GATHERED FOR A POSSIBLE PLT DEV. HE ALSO STATED THAT THE TAPES WOULD BE REVIEWED AND TO CALL MONDAY AND TO ASK FOR MGR FOR RESULTS OF EVALUATION TO THAT POINT. I GAVE A SHORT SYNOPSIS OF MY INTERPRETATION OF THE OCCURRENCE, AND REITERATED MY INTENT NOT TO BE UNCOOPERATIVE; AS WELL AS COMPANY PLTS GENERAL INTEND TO BE COOPERATIVE! IN SHORT, I ACCEPTED AND DECLARED AN EMER TO DEV FROM A CTLRS REQUEST SO AS NOT TO ENDANGER THE SAFETY OF THE ACFT AND PAXS BY FLYING IN OR TOO NEAR TSTM ACTIVITY. AN ADDITIONAL FACT IS THAT THE CTLR ON 133.72 MADE NO MENTION OF A POSSIBLE CONFLICT WITH MIL ACFT BY DEVIATING S OF J86. IT IS TRUE THAT HE HAD GIVEN US FL350 AND WE HAD ACCEPTED, BUT IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT HE HAD US STOP OUR CL AT FL310, THEN HANDED US OFF TO 133.0.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.