Air carrier X failed to comply with ATC clearance. Undershot altitude crossing restriction. Situation: large transport type aircraft unable to comply with dowst crossing restriction during hot WX.

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Attributes
ACN	152895
Time
Date	199008
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : pom
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 13200 msl bound upper : 14000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla tracon : ont
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	departure sid : sid
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : second officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 80
ASRS Report	152895
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : insufficient time
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

On our standard departure out of ont to minneapolis, we had a 14000' MSL restriction that we couldn't make due to aircraft performance. We told the controling agency 2 mins prior to reaching it that we couldn't make it. They apparently didn't hear us because they violated us after we crossed it 800' low. Later in a phone conversation, we found out that ATC felt we should have told ont tower prior to takeoff that we couldn't make the altitude restriction. Nothing in our flight manuals tells us to do this. I believe that ont departure and ZLA are operating under a procedure that hasn't been communicated to all pilots.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR X FAILED TO COMPLY WITH ATC CLRNC. UNDERSHOT ALT CROSSING RESTRICTION. SITUATION: LGT TYPE ACFT UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH DOWST CROSSING RESTRICTION DURING HOT WX.

Narrative: ON OUR STANDARD DEP OUT OF ONT TO MINNEAPOLIS, WE HAD A 14000' MSL RESTRICTION THAT WE COULDN'T MAKE DUE TO ACFT PERFORMANCE. WE TOLD THE CTLING AGENCY 2 MINS PRIOR TO REACHING IT THAT WE COULDN'T MAKE IT. THEY APPARENTLY DIDN'T HEAR US BECAUSE THEY VIOLATED US AFTER WE CROSSED IT 800' LOW. LATER IN A PHONE CONVERSATION, WE FOUND OUT THAT ATC FELT WE SHOULD HAVE TOLD ONT TWR PRIOR TO TKOF THAT WE COULDN'T MAKE THE ALT RESTRICTION. NOTHING IN OUR FLT MANUALS TELLS US TO DO THIS. I BELIEVE THAT ONT DEP AND ZLA ARE OPERATING UNDER A PROC THAT HASN'T BEEN COMMUNICATED TO ALL PLTS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.