Small aircraft at 5000' in clouds and turbulence climbs above clouds knowing that there is opposite ...

Attributes
ACN	162671
Time
Date	199011
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : cha
State Reference	TN
Altitude	msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5300
Environment
Flight Conditions	Mixed
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear
Flight Phase	cruise other
Route In Use	enroute airway : ztl
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Flight Phase	cruise other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : single pilot instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 850 flight time type : 100
ASRS Report	162671
Person 2
Affiliation	Other
Function	instruction : trainee
Qualification	pilot : private
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude inflight encounter : weather non adherence : required legal separation
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

Tops of clouds varied from 4500-5300'. We were assigned 5000' for our cruising altitude. This put us in clouds occasionally for a few seconds at a time. Turbulence was light to moderate in clouds, smooth outside the clouds. I thought about requesting a higher altitude but decided it would be good to get a little actual INS time for my INS student who was flying the aircraft. Then we went into a cloud which was a little bigger than the rest, with the very highest point being about 5200' (200' above us). Encountered moderate turbulence and immediately asked controller if we could climb to 7000'. Controller said we couldn't due to traffic coming in opp direction. A couple seconds later we entered another, slightly bigger cloud, the top of which was about 5300'. Encountered severe turbulence. Student panicked, took hands off controls and yelled for me to take the controls. I took the controls and immediately began a climb to 5300'. (I knew that once we got out of the clouds the turbulence would stop, and I also knew the tops were no higher than 5300'--so we still would be a safe distance from the traffic and also would be able to see him if he came very close). As I stared to climb I told ATC that I needed to climb immediately due to turbulence. I heard controller give the other plane a vector that would take him away from us. Controller then gave us a new heading also. (When we broke out of the clouds at 5300' we continued to climb up to 7000' since the other traffic was no longer a factor.) controller did not sound very happy. I explained the situation by telling him we encountered severe turbulence. Controller then asked other plane what his flight conditions were like, and of course the other pilot said it was smooth (he was above the clouds quite a bit). It probably would have helped if I would have explained to the controller that we were going in and out of the tops so that he'd understand why it was so turbulent for us, but not the other plane. From now on, when moderate turbulence is forecast (what it was in this case) near mountainous terrain, I will request on altitude as early as possible which will put us above it.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: SMA AT 5000' IN CLOUDS AND TURBULENCE CLIMBS ABOVE CLOUDS KNOWING THAT THERE IS OPPOSITE DIRECTION TRAFFIC AT 6000'.

Narrative: TOPS OF CLOUDS VARIED FROM 4500-5300'. WE WERE ASSIGNED 5000' FOR OUR CRUISING ALT. THIS PUT US IN CLOUDS OCCASIONALLY FOR A FEW SECS AT A TIME. TURB WAS LIGHT TO MODERATE IN CLOUDS, SMOOTH OUTSIDE THE CLOUDS. I THOUGHT ABOUT REQUESTING A HIGHER ALT BUT DECIDED IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GET A LITTLE ACTUAL INS TIME FOR MY INS STUDENT WHO WAS FLYING THE ACFT. THEN WE WENT INTO A CLOUD WHICH WAS A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THE REST, WITH THE VERY HIGHEST POINT BEING ABOUT 5200' (200' ABOVE US). ENCOUNTERED MODERATE TURB AND IMMEDIATELY ASKED CTLR IF WE COULD CLB TO 7000'. CTLR SAID WE COULDN'T DUE TO TFC COMING IN OPP DIRECTION. A COUPLE SECS LATER WE ENTERED ANOTHER, SLIGHTLY BIGGER CLOUD, THE TOP OF WHICH WAS ABOUT 5300'. ENCOUNTERED SEVERE TURB. STUDENT PANICKED, TOOK HANDS OFF CTLS AND YELLED FOR ME TO TAKE THE CTLS. I TOOK THE CTLS AND IMMEDIATELY BEGAN A CLB TO 5300'. (I KNEW THAT ONCE WE GOT OUT OF THE CLOUDS THE TURB WOULD STOP, AND I ALSO KNEW THE TOPS WERE NO HIGHER THAN 5300'--SO WE STILL WOULD BE A SAFE DISTANCE FROM THE TFC AND ALSO WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE HIM IF HE CAME VERY CLOSE). AS I STARED TO CLB I TOLD ATC THAT I NEEDED TO CLB IMMEDIATELY DUE TO TURB. I HEARD CTLR GIVE THE OTHER PLANE A VECTOR THAT WOULD TAKE HIM AWAY FROM US. CTLR THEN GAVE US A NEW HDG ALSO. (WHEN WE BROKE OUT OF THE CLOUDS AT 5300' WE CONTINUED TO CLB UP TO 7000' SINCE THE OTHER TFC WAS NO LONGER A FACTOR.) CTLR DID NOT SOUND VERY HAPPY. I EXPLAINED THE SITUATION BY TELLING HIM WE ENCOUNTERED SEVERE TURB. CTLR THEN ASKED OTHER PLANE WHAT HIS FLT CONDITIONS WERE LIKE, AND OF COURSE THE OTHER PLT SAID IT WAS SMOOTH (HE WAS ABOVE THE CLOUDS QUITE A BIT). IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HELPED IF I WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED TO THE CTLR THAT WE WERE GOING IN AND OUT OF THE TOPS SO THAT HE'D UNDERSTAND WHY IT WAS SO TURBULENT FOR US, BUT NOT THE OTHER PLANE. FROM NOW ON, WHEN MODERATE TURB IS FORECAST (WHAT IT WAS IN THIS CASE) NEAR MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN, I WILL REQUEST ON ALT AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE WHICH WILL PUT US ABOVE IT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Small aircraft at 5000' in clouds and turbulence climbs above clouds knowing that there is opposite direction traffic at 6000'.