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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 219689 |
Time | |
Date | 199208 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 18000 msl bound upper : 19500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 219689 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 22500 flight time type : 2800 |
ASRS Report | 219990 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : became reoriented flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Cleared for the civet. Civet 3 profile descent into lax I started to FLIP my VOR from automatic-tune to ILS/DME frequency 109.9 ilax and back to automatic-tune at about 160 NM from lax according to the FMS. The first time I switched, the DME showed about 110 in the override mode and since we were 160 out according to the FMS/RNAV I assumed the DME was from some other 109.9. I flipped back and forth several more times in the next few mins and became very concerned when the DME finally showed 56 and the FMS/RNAV said 106, since I knew there could be no other ILS/DME within 100 of lax on frequency 109.9. At that point, I told the captain there was something screwy going on with my DME versus RNAV. We started to compare his VOR to mine and the RNAV, but within 30 seconds, center called to confirm our clearance on the civet 3 profile. We agreed we had been cleared for it and he replied we were south of course, gave us a vector to intercept the localizer and assigned a crossing altitude at arnes. Since we were at 49 DME when the conversation started, we were already inside civet and later estimated we must have been at least 1500 ft high crossing abeam it. We were back on the profile by arnes. We don't know where or when the RNAV got lost, but we do know the waypoint coordinates were correct. The bottom line is the overall system worked. While we trusted the RNAV, we did start to xchk it, then question it, and the moment the controller confirmed our suspicions, corrected it by switching back to the old- fashioned, manual method. Supplemental information from acn 219990: I estimate we were 2-3 mi south when called. Evidently our automatic navigation system had malfunctioned although we had no flags. After landing we checked our INS coordinates and both INS were correct. We suspected problem in RNAV system and advised maintenance to check it out. One method of prevention or correction would be to xchk manual system a bit farther away and maybe xchk more than once. In my 4 yrs and over 2800 hours using INS navigation, I've always found the system to be very accurate until this instance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: HDG TRACK POS DEV IN A GROSS NAV ERROR DURING APCH PROC STAR.
Narrative: CLRED FOR THE CIVET. CIVET 3 PROFILE DSCNT INTO LAX I STARTED TO FLIP MY VOR FROM AUTO-TUNE TO ILS/DME FREQ 109.9 ILAX AND BACK TO AUTO-TUNE AT ABOUT 160 NM FROM LAX ACCORDING TO THE FMS. THE FIRST TIME I SWITCHED, THE DME SHOWED ABOUT 110 IN THE OVERRIDE MODE AND SINCE WE WERE 160 OUT ACCORDING TO THE FMS/RNAV I ASSUMED THE DME WAS FROM SOME OTHER 109.9. I FLIPPED BACK AND FORTH SEVERAL MORE TIMES IN THE NEXT FEW MINS AND BECAME VERY CONCERNED WHEN THE DME FINALLY SHOWED 56 AND THE FMS/RNAV SAID 106, SINCE I KNEW THERE COULD BE NO OTHER ILS/DME WITHIN 100 OF LAX ON FREQ 109.9. AT THAT POINT, I TOLD THE CAPT THERE WAS SOMETHING SCREWY GOING ON WITH MY DME VERSUS RNAV. WE STARTED TO COMPARE HIS VOR TO MINE AND THE RNAV, BUT WITHIN 30 SECONDS, CTR CALLED TO CONFIRM OUR CLRNC ON THE CIVET 3 PROFILE. WE AGREED WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR IT AND HE REPLIED WE WERE S OF COURSE, GAVE US A VECTOR TO INTERCEPT THE LOC AND ASSIGNED A XING ALT AT ARNES. SINCE WE WERE AT 49 DME WHEN THE CONVERSATION STARTED, WE WERE ALREADY INSIDE CIVET AND LATER ESTIMATED WE MUST HAVE BEEN AT LEAST 1500 FT HIGH XING ABEAM IT. WE WERE BACK ON THE PROFILE BY ARNES. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE OR WHEN THE RNAV GOT LOST, BUT WE DO KNOW THE WAYPOINT COORDINATES WERE CORRECT. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE OVERALL SYS WORKED. WHILE WE TRUSTED THE RNAV, WE DID START TO XCHK IT, THEN QUESTION IT, AND THE MOMENT THE CTLR CONFIRMED OUR SUSPICIONS, CORRECTED IT BY SWITCHING BACK TO THE OLD- FASHIONED, MANUAL METHOD. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 219990: I ESTIMATE WE WERE 2-3 MI S WHEN CALLED. EVIDENTLY OUR AUTO NAV SYS HAD MALFUNCTIONED ALTHOUGH WE HAD NO FLAGS. AFTER LNDG WE CHKED OUR INS COORDINATES AND BOTH INS WERE CORRECT. WE SUSPECTED PROBLEM IN RNAV SYS AND ADVISED MAINT TO CHK IT OUT. ONE METHOD OF PREVENTION OR CORRECTION WOULD BE TO XCHK MANUAL SYS A BIT FARTHER AWAY AND MAYBE XCHK MORE THAN ONCE. IN MY 4 YRS AND OVER 2800 HRS USING INS NAV, I'VE ALWAYS FOUND THE SYS TO BE VERY ACCURATE UNTIL THIS INSTANCE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.