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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 254152 |
Time | |
Date | 199310 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dtw |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4700 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dtw tower : cle |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : straight in |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 6000 |
ASRS Report | 254152 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : exited penetrated airspace flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Dtw approach control was working our flight from alb to dtw. We were at 5000 ft and being vectored for a runway 21L ILS. I had the autoplt set up for this approach. Dtw was also using runway 21R parallel approachs. We were at 220 KTS and slowing when the controller turned us left to a 250 degree heading. He said 'maintain 5000 ft until established, then cleared for a 21L ILS approach.' the only problem was he turned us way too late and we ended up on the west side of the 21L localizer. When we went through the localizer, the autoplt captured the localizer and GS. It turned the aircraft to a 180 degree heading to reintercept the 21L localizer and began to descend on the GS. At about 4700 ft MSL the TCASII alerted us to climb. Also at this time, the approach controller stated 'maintain 5000 ft until established on the 21L localizer.' I took manual control of the aircraft, maintained 5000 ft and intercepted the 21L localizer. I then conducted a normal approach. When the TCASII alert sounded, we did establish visual contact with our traffic. The problem however, was the fact that the final controller turned us way too late and never advised us of any traffic conflict until we got the TCASII alert. Without any visual or ADF type of references, we really have no way of knowing when we are coming up on the 21L localizer. Therefore, I think it is most important that the local controllers give us the proper lead time to correctly intercept a parallel type approach localizer.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT DURING RADAR VECTORING FOR IAP ILS PARALLEL SIMULTANEOUS ILS APCH PROC.
Narrative: DTW APCH CTL WAS WORKING OUR FLT FROM ALB TO DTW. WE WERE AT 5000 FT AND BEING VECTORED FOR A RWY 21L ILS. I HAD THE AUTOPLT SET UP FOR THIS APCH. DTW WAS ALSO USING RWY 21R PARALLEL APCHS. WE WERE AT 220 KTS AND SLOWING WHEN THE CTLR TURNED US L TO A 250 DEG HDG. HE SAID 'MAINTAIN 5000 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED, THEN CLRED FOR A 21L ILS APCH.' THE ONLY PROB WAS HE TURNED US WAY TOO LATE AND WE ENDED UP ON THE W SIDE OF THE 21L LOC. WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE LOC, THE AUTOPLT CAPTURED THE LOC AND GS. IT TURNED THE ACFT TO A 180 DEG HDG TO REINTERCEPT THE 21L LOC AND BEGAN TO DSND ON THE GS. AT ABOUT 4700 FT MSL THE TCASII ALERTED US TO CLB. ALSO AT THIS TIME, THE APCH CTLR STATED 'MAINTAIN 5000 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON THE 21L LOC.' I TOOK MANUAL CTL OF THE ACFT, MAINTAINED 5000 FT AND INTERCEPTED THE 21L LOC. I THEN CONDUCTED A NORMAL APCH. WHEN THE TCASII ALERT SOUNDED, WE DID ESTABLISH VISUAL CONTACT WITH OUR TFC. THE PROB HOWEVER, WAS THE FACT THAT THE FINAL CTLR TURNED US WAY TOO LATE AND NEVER ADVISED US OF ANY TFC CONFLICT UNTIL WE GOT THE TCASII ALERT. WITHOUT ANY VISUAL OR ADF TYPE OF REFS, WE REALLY HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHEN WE ARE COMING UP ON THE 21L LOC. THEREFORE, I THINK IT IS MOST IMPORTANT THAT THE LCL CTLRS GIVE US THE PROPER LEAD TIME TO CORRECTLY INTERCEPT A PARALLEL TYPE APCH LOC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.