37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 266573 |
Time | |
Date | 199403 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 11000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dfw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 58 flight time total : 3800 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 266573 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
On the above mentioned arrival, approach control had told us to maintain high speeds on the way in (320 IAS or greater). Crossing buj we heard approach tell another aircraft to comply with STAR speeds. As we crossed baton intersection at 11000 ft as cleared, we were told to 'maintain normal speed.' I understood that to mean 'what speeds we would normally fly at any other aprt.' he never told us to comply with published speeds. The STAR requires crossing hamak 'at 210 KIAS' for turbojets landing north. Level at 5000 ft turning for the visual to runway 36L approach inquired as to our speed, which was 250 KTS. Approach told us for future reference to comply with STAR speed earlier in the arrival. No particular conflict occurred as a result of our speed, however approach control's vector to final resulted in an overshoot to the west of runway 36L centerline. What's the bottom line? If I was unsure of the clearance, I should have queried the controller, however, I thought the terminology used was misleading. If I'm flying a SID that has a restr of '250 KIAS until advised,' I fly 250 until the controller says 'fly normal speed.' fly normal speed in that case means -- whatever speed I want to fly within company and aircraft manufacturer's guidelines or restrs (or FARS if below 10000 ft MSL).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SPD DEV DUE TO CLRNC CONFUSION.
Narrative: ON THE ABOVE MENTIONED ARR, APCH CTL HAD TOLD US TO MAINTAIN HIGH SPDS ON THE WAY IN (320 IAS OR GREATER). XING BUJ WE HEARD APCH TELL ANOTHER ACFT TO COMPLY WITH STAR SPDS. AS WE CROSSED BATON INTXN AT 11000 FT AS CLRED, WE WERE TOLD TO 'MAINTAIN NORMAL SPD.' I UNDERSTOOD THAT TO MEAN 'WHAT SPDS WE WOULD NORMALLY FLY AT ANY OTHER APRT.' HE NEVER TOLD US TO COMPLY WITH PUBLISHED SPDS. THE STAR REQUIRES XING HAMAK 'AT 210 KIAS' FOR TURBOJETS LNDG N. LEVEL AT 5000 FT TURNING FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 36L APCH INQUIRED AS TO OUR SPD, WHICH WAS 250 KTS. APCH TOLD US FOR FUTURE REF TO COMPLY WITH STAR SPD EARLIER IN THE ARR. NO PARTICULAR CONFLICT OCCURRED AS A RESULT OF OUR SPD, HOWEVER APCH CTL'S VECTOR TO FINAL RESULTED IN AN OVERSHOOT TO THE W OF RWY 36L CTRLINE. WHAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE? IF I WAS UNSURE OF THE CLRNC, I SHOULD HAVE QUERIED THE CTLR, HOWEVER, I THOUGHT THE TERMINOLOGY USED WAS MISLEADING. IF I'M FLYING A SID THAT HAS A RESTR OF '250 KIAS UNTIL ADVISED,' I FLY 250 UNTIL THE CTLR SAYS 'FLY NORMAL SPD.' FLY NORMAL SPD IN THAT CASE MEANS -- WHATEVER SPD I WANT TO FLY WITHIN COMPANY AND ACFT MANUFACTURER'S GUIDELINES OR RESTRS (OR FARS IF BELOW 10000 FT MSL).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.