37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 300084 |
Time | |
Date | 199503 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : rdu |
State Reference | NC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8700 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 210 |
ASRS Report | 300084 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
During descent into raleigh/duram airport washington control asked us at approximately 23000 ft to descend at best rate to 12000 ft. We complied with throttles closed and a descent rate of approximately 4000-4500 FPM. Prior to reaching 12000 ft, we were cleared to 9000 ft and asked to hurry our descent because of traffic 2 mi away, and to disregard the speed restr of 250 KTS below 10000 ft. I spoke to the controller and questioned him about wavering our speed limit of 250 KTS below 10000 ft. We were at 340 KTS at the time. He came back and said, 'I need you at 9000 ft in 30 seconds,' I continued to slow at 10000 ft and asked him if he had an emergency or if we were about to hit someone. He called back and starting yelling, 'I told you be at 9000 ft in 30 seconds. I need you down now, turn left to 90 degrees.' at that point from the tone of his voice, I thought we were going to hit someone, so I pulled spoilers and descended at a very high rate to 9000 ft, overshooting the altitude by approximately 300 ft. I think the controller handed this very poorly, if he had a traffic conflict at 10000 ft, he could have leveled us at 11000 or 12000 ft or given us a turn. But he confused us by giving a clearance that was not legal and not giving us any other information. If he had said, 'descend to 9000 ft immediately to 9000 ft because of traffic at,' we would have complied without question, regardless of airspeed. I feel proper communication was the problem, and not making us fully aware of the situation, and asking us to do something that was not correct.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG FLC HAS CONTROVERSY WITH CTLR REGARDING IGNORING THE 250 KTS RESTR UNDER 10000 FT.
Narrative: DURING DSCNT INTO RALEIGH/DURAM ARPT WASHINGTON CTL ASKED US AT APPROX 23000 FT TO DSND AT BEST RATE TO 12000 FT. WE COMPLIED WITH THROTTLES CLOSED AND A DSCNT RATE OF APPROX 4000-4500 FPM. PRIOR TO REACHING 12000 FT, WE WERE CLRED TO 9000 FT AND ASKED TO HURRY OUR DSCNT BECAUSE OF TFC 2 MI AWAY, AND TO DISREGARD THE SPD RESTR OF 250 KTS BELOW 10000 FT. I SPOKE TO THE CTLR AND QUESTIONED HIM ABOUT WAVERING OUR SPD LIMIT OF 250 KTS BELOW 10000 FT. WE WERE AT 340 KTS AT THE TIME. HE CAME BACK AND SAID, 'I NEED YOU AT 9000 FT IN 30 SECONDS,' I CONTINUED TO SLOW AT 10000 FT AND ASKED HIM IF HE HAD AN EMER OR IF WE WERE ABOUT TO HIT SOMEONE. HE CALLED BACK AND STARTING YELLING, 'I TOLD YOU BE AT 9000 FT IN 30 SECONDS. I NEED YOU DOWN NOW, TURN L TO 90 DEGS.' AT THAT POINT FROM THE TONE OF HIS VOICE, I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HIT SOMEONE, SO I PULLED SPOILERS AND DSNDED AT A VERY HIGH RATE TO 9000 FT, OVERSHOOTING THE ALT BY APPROX 300 FT. I THINK THE CTLR HANDED THIS VERY POORLY, IF HE HAD A TFC CONFLICT AT 10000 FT, HE COULD HAVE LEVELED US AT 11000 OR 12000 FT OR GIVEN US A TURN. BUT HE CONFUSED US BY GIVING A CLRNC THAT WAS NOT LEGAL AND NOT GIVING US ANY OTHER INFO. IF HE HAD SAID, 'DSND TO 9000 FT IMMEDIATELY TO 9000 FT BECAUSE OF TFC AT,' WE WOULD HAVE COMPLIED WITHOUT QUESTION, REGARDLESS OF AIRSPD. I FEEL PROPER COM WAS THE PROB, AND NOT MAKING US FULLY AWARE OF THE SIT, AND ASKING US TO DO SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT CORRECT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.