37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 300170 |
Time | |
Date | 199503 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ont |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7300 msl bound upper : 8000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ont |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 25 flight time total : 6800 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 300170 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 12190 flight time type : 1633 |
ASRS Report | 299941 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : became reoriented flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
I was the copilot and it was the captain's leg. Good pilot, good captain. Vectored off the ziggy 3 arrival. ATC kept gradually giving us lower altitude 1000 ft at a time. We were set up for the classic 'slam dunk' approach coupled with ATC pressure to take a visual with numerous airports (chino, el monte, etc) in the area. This ATC attitude of 'just take the visual' (so I can go back to sleep) is typical of some controllers late at night that have been overworked earlier. It is a great way to set up for the wrong airport. Captain was hand flying and vigilantly looking for the correct airport while I was tuning and identing radios when I looked up and saw the aircraft descending through assigned 8000 ft. I called this out and he corrected the flight altitude. I feel that a myriads of factors caused this deviation. A significant one that caused me to take much more time than normal to identify the radios is B-727 aircraft differences at my company. My god, we must have 2 dozen different configurations in the fleet to contend with. Additionally much of the panel/pedestal lighting in these airplanes is either burned-out, unlabeled or chipped up and illegible. Writing it up does no good. (But old birds are better than no birds!) another significant factor is the ridiculous 24-hour-a-day reserve policy that is allowed at my company. How can the FAA even sanction such an obviously dangerous scheduling practice? Everyone including the controller was at least somewhat impaired because it was XA30 am! Controller must have fallen back asleep because he forgot to switch us over to tower (which I queried him about on short final). Conclusions: force air carrier to release all the NASA sleep deprivation study results that they have been suppressing and share these results with the pilot group and arsa. 2) get the FAA to force manufacturers to standardize cockpits between companies and not allow individual mgrs to specify unusual equipment - mergers and airline equipment sales are inevitable in the future. 3) give arsa staff authority/authorized to change national airspace system procedures. Supplemental information from acn 299941: the captain (PF) began a rapid descent required because of our proximity to the airport. Prior to reaching 8000 ft, the approach controller issued a clearance for a visual approach.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALTDEV ALT OVERSHOT IN DSCNT.
Narrative: I WAS THE COPLT AND IT WAS THE CAPT'S LEG. GOOD PLT, GOOD CAPT. VECTORED OFF THE ZIGGY 3 ARR. ATC KEPT GRADUALLY GIVING US LOWER ALT 1000 FT AT A TIME. WE WERE SET UP FOR THE CLASSIC 'SLAM DUNK' APCH COUPLED WITH ATC PRESSURE TO TAKE A VISUAL WITH NUMEROUS ARPTS (CHINO, EL MONTE, ETC) IN THE AREA. THIS ATC ATTITUDE OF 'JUST TAKE THE VISUAL' (SO I CAN GO BACK TO SLEEP) IS TYPICAL OF SOME CTLRS LATE AT NIGHT THAT HAVE BEEN OVERWORKED EARLIER. IT IS A GREAT WAY TO SET UP FOR THE WRONG ARPT. CAPT WAS HAND FLYING AND VIGILANTLY LOOKING FOR THE CORRECT ARPT WHILE I WAS TUNING AND IDENTING RADIOS WHEN I LOOKED UP AND SAW THE ACFT DSNDING THROUGH ASSIGNED 8000 FT. I CALLED THIS OUT AND HE CORRECTED THE FLT ALT. I FEEL THAT A MYRIADS OF FACTORS CAUSED THIS DEV. A SIGNIFICANT ONE THAT CAUSED ME TO TAKE MUCH MORE TIME THAN NORMAL TO IDENT THE RADIOS IS B-727 ACFT DIFFERENCES AT MY COMPANY. MY GOD, WE MUST HAVE 2 DOZEN DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS IN THE FLEET TO CONTEND WITH. ADDITIONALLY MUCH OF THE PANEL/PEDESTAL LIGHTING IN THESE AIRPLANES IS EITHER BURNED-OUT, UNLABELED OR CHIPPED UP AND ILLEGIBLE. WRITING IT UP DOES NO GOOD. (BUT OLD BIRDS ARE BETTER THAN NO BIRDS!) ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT FACTOR IS THE RIDICULOUS 24-HR-A-DAY RESERVE POLICY THAT IS ALLOWED AT MY COMPANY. HOW CAN THE FAA EVEN SANCTION SUCH AN OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS SCHEDULING PRACTICE? EVERYONE INCLUDING THE CTLR WAS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT IMPAIRED BECAUSE IT WAS XA30 AM! CTLR MUST HAVE FALLEN BACK ASLEEP BECAUSE HE FORGOT TO SWITCH US OVER TO TWR (WHICH I QUERIED HIM ABOUT ON SHORT FINAL). CONCLUSIONS: FORCE ACR TO RELEASE ALL THE NASA SLEEP DEPRIVATION STUDY RESULTS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SUPPRESSING AND SHARE THESE RESULTS WITH THE PLT GROUP AND ARSA. 2) GET THE FAA TO FORCE MANUFACTURERS TO STANDARDIZE COCKPITS BTWN COMPANIES AND NOT ALLOW INDIVIDUAL MGRS TO SPECIFY UNUSUAL EQUIP - MERGERS AND AIRLINE EQUIP SALES ARE INEVITABLE IN THE FUTURE. 3) GIVE ARSA STAFF AUTH TO CHANGE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYS PROCS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 299941: THE CAPT (PF) BEGAN A RAPID DSCNT REQUIRED BECAUSE OF OUR PROX TO THE ARPT. PRIOR TO REACHING 8000 FT, THE APCH CTLR ISSUED A CLRNC FOR A VISUAL APCH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.