Narrative:

This incident occurred on mar/xa/95 at the msp airport around XA00 to XA30 local. The flight crew was preparing for pushback and departure when the gate agent handed me (the first officer) the passenger and bag counts. I then prepared the weight and balance form with the counts given to me. I determined that we were over our maximum zero fuel weight and our maximum takeoff weight so I calculated that we must remove either 7 passenger or 45 bags. I told this to the captain and he told the gate agent to remove 45 bags. About 2 mins later, a different gate agent came back and said 'here are your new counts.' I noticed that 56 bags had been removed (supposedly). I said 'we only need to remove 45, not 56.' I instructed him to place 5 bags in the aft and 5 bags in the forward cargo bins. The gate agent then told me that he had miscounted and that my '5 aft/5 forward' request was actually complied with. I suspected that maybe the 45 bags had not been removed because it only took 2 mins from our first request - so I asked if they really did remove the bags - the agent said yes. We then departed for acapulco, mx. When we arrived in mexico, we had a delay and spent part of that time in very close proximity to the passenger as they claimed their bags. It seemed that no one was missing any bags. 1 week later we were preparing to take another flight to mexico when both the flight engineer and myself asked the gate agents if they really removed the bags - they 'smiled' and said 'yes' - wink, wink. We then asked again and said 'seriously guys, did you or not?' and they said 'no' we didn't. We then departed for acapulco to pick up the same passenger from this incident 1 week earlier. When the passenger and bag count was given to me, it was approximately the same overweight count that we had been given 1 week earlier in msp. We instructed the mexican gate agent to remove approximately 50 bags prior to departure. They complied. Now, whenever I fly aircraft abc and def I always get out of the plane and count bags as they are loaded. I will not fly outside the regulations or limits. We, the crewmembers, suspect that this has occurred quite often due to: 1) fear of having to explain to the company why bags were left and costs were incurred, 2) agents trying to be 'team players' for the company's sake, 3) lazy agents - not wanting to deal with all the items involved in such a trivial problem. Airplane numbers have auxiliary fuel tanks in the aft cargo area thus reducing the number of bags that can be placed there. I asked the bag loaders if they count as they put bags on, they said no. I asked if they were instructed to only load a certain number in the aft or forward, they said no. So, where do the aft and forward back numbers come from? They are made up and split up from a total given to the agent from the 'check-in' process. Typically the 'aft' counts given to me were around 165-195. When I watch and count it is apparent that only 130-150 will fit in the aft. This severely effects our weight and balance and center of gravity. Solution - count them as they go on the aircraft!! And don't lie.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: RPTR BELIEVES WT AND BAL BAGGAGE COUNT WAS FALSIFIED.

Narrative: THIS INCIDENT OCCURRED ON MAR/XA/95 AT THE MSP ARPT AROUND XA00 TO XA30 LCL. THE FLC WAS PREPARING FOR PUSHBACK AND DEP WHEN THE GATE AGENT HANDED ME (THE FO) THE PAX AND BAG COUNTS. I THEN PREPARED THE WT AND BAL FORM WITH THE COUNTS GIVEN TO ME. I DETERMINED THAT WE WERE OVER OUR MAX ZERO FUEL WT AND OUR MAX TKOF WT SO I CALCULATED THAT WE MUST REMOVE EITHER 7 PAX OR 45 BAGS. I TOLD THIS TO THE CAPT AND HE TOLD THE GATE AGENT TO REMOVE 45 BAGS. ABOUT 2 MINS LATER, A DIFFERENT GATE AGENT CAME BACK AND SAID 'HERE ARE YOUR NEW COUNTS.' I NOTICED THAT 56 BAGS HAD BEEN REMOVED (SUPPOSEDLY). I SAID 'WE ONLY NEED TO REMOVE 45, NOT 56.' I INSTRUCTED HIM TO PLACE 5 BAGS IN THE AFT AND 5 BAGS IN THE FORWARD CARGO BINS. THE GATE AGENT THEN TOLD ME THAT HE HAD MISCOUNTED AND THAT MY '5 AFT/5 FORWARD' REQUEST WAS ACTUALLY COMPLIED WITH. I SUSPECTED THAT MAYBE THE 45 BAGS HAD NOT BEEN REMOVED BECAUSE IT ONLY TOOK 2 MINS FROM OUR FIRST REQUEST - SO I ASKED IF THEY REALLY DID REMOVE THE BAGS - THE AGENT SAID YES. WE THEN DEPARTED FOR ACAPULCO, MX. WHEN WE ARRIVED IN MEXICO, WE HAD A DELAY AND SPENT PART OF THAT TIME IN VERY CLOSE PROX TO THE PAX AS THEY CLAIMED THEIR BAGS. IT SEEMED THAT NO ONE WAS MISSING ANY BAGS. 1 WK LATER WE WERE PREPARING TO TAKE ANOTHER FLT TO MEXICO WHEN BOTH THE FE AND MYSELF ASKED THE GATE AGENTS IF THEY REALLY REMOVED THE BAGS - THEY 'SMILED' AND SAID 'YES' - WINK, WINK. WE THEN ASKED AGAIN AND SAID 'SERIOUSLY GUYS, DID YOU OR NOT?' AND THEY SAID 'NO' WE DIDN'T. WE THEN DEPARTED FOR ACAPULCO TO PICK UP THE SAME PAX FROM THIS INCIDENT 1 WK EARLIER. WHEN THE PAX AND BAG COUNT WAS GIVEN TO ME, IT WAS APPROX THE SAME OVERWT COUNT THAT WE HAD BEEN GIVEN 1 WK EARLIER IN MSP. WE INSTRUCTED THE MEXICAN GATE AGENT TO REMOVE APPROX 50 BAGS PRIOR TO DEP. THEY COMPLIED. NOW, WHENEVER I FLY ACFT ABC AND DEF I ALWAYS GET OUT OF THE PLANE AND COUNT BAGS AS THEY ARE LOADED. I WILL NOT FLY OUTSIDE THE REGS OR LIMITS. WE, THE CREWMEMBERS, SUSPECT THAT THIS HAS OCCURRED QUITE OFTEN DUE TO: 1) FEAR OF HAVING TO EXPLAIN TO THE COMPANY WHY BAGS WERE LEFT AND COSTS WERE INCURRED, 2) AGENTS TRYING TO BE 'TEAM PLAYERS' FOR THE COMPANY'S SAKE, 3) LAZY AGENTS - NOT WANTING TO DEAL WITH ALL THE ITEMS INVOLVED IN SUCH A TRIVIAL PROB. AIRPLANE NUMBERS HAVE AUX FUEL TANKS IN THE AFT CARGO AREA THUS REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BAGS THAT CAN BE PLACED THERE. I ASKED THE BAG LOADERS IF THEY COUNT AS THEY PUT BAGS ON, THEY SAID NO. I ASKED IF THEY WERE INSTRUCTED TO ONLY LOAD A CERTAIN NUMBER IN THE AFT OR FORWARD, THEY SAID NO. SO, WHERE DO THE AFT AND FORWARD BACK NUMBERS COME FROM? THEY ARE MADE UP AND SPLIT UP FROM A TOTAL GIVEN TO THE AGENT FROM THE 'CHK-IN' PROCESS. TYPICALLY THE 'AFT' COUNTS GIVEN TO ME WERE AROUND 165-195. WHEN I WATCH AND COUNT IT IS APPARENT THAT ONLY 130-150 WILL FIT IN THE AFT. THIS SEVERELY EFFECTS OUR WT AND BAL AND CTR OF GRAVITY. SOLUTION - COUNT THEM AS THEY GO ON THE ACFT!! AND DON'T LIE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.