Exceeded limit of holding airspace.

Attributes
ACN	317710
Time
Date	199510
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : vcn airport : phl
State Reference	NJ
Altitude	msl bound lower : 9000 msl bound upper : 9000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : phl
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	other
Route In Use	departure other departure sid : sid enroute airway : wri
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 4000
ASRS Report	317710
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 700 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 3000
ASRS Report	318131
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance flight crew : exited penetrated airspace other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

Due to WX at destination we had a 45 min ground hold after departure from gate. After takeoff and still with departure control, we were given holding at ditch intersection. We had just enough time to program the FMC and figure out what holding entry was called for, to be able to properly monitor progress, before we got to the fix. About 1 min after calling entering hold, with aircraft in shallow turn to outbound course, ATC gave us an immediate turn to 280 degrees or approximately a 180 degree turn and said we were beyond the holding airspace. We then found by belatedly looking at raw data DME that the FMC fix position was in error by 6 mi. By the time we made 1 loop of the pattern, the FMC had updated and corrected its position. This incident could have been avoided by verifying position using raw data in a timely manner. Several factors contributed, the long ground hold probably was responsible for the FMC position error (no stations to update from). There was light to moderate turbulence. Supplemental information from acn 318131: we were told to hold as published at a fix that is on the departure but the holding pattern was not shown on the departure plate, it was on a low altitude chart. Crew workload was high, and notification of hold time was short.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: EXCEEDED LIMIT OF HOLDING AIRSPACE.

Narrative: DUE TO WX AT DEST WE HAD A 45 MIN GND HOLD AFTER DEP FROM GATE. AFTER TKOF AND STILL WITH DEP CTL, WE WERE GIVEN HOLDING AT DITCH INTXN. WE HAD JUST ENOUGH TIME TO PROGRAM THE FMC AND FIGURE OUT WHAT HOLDING ENTRY WAS CALLED FOR, TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY MONITOR PROGRESS, BEFORE WE GOT TO THE FIX. ABOUT 1 MIN AFTER CALLING ENTERING HOLD, WITH ACFT IN SHALLOW TURN TO OUTBOUND COURSE, ATC GAVE US AN IMMEDIATE TURN TO 280 DEGS OR APPROX A 180 DEG TURN AND SAID WE WERE BEYOND THE HOLDING AIRSPACE. WE THEN FOUND BY BELATEDLY LOOKING AT RAW DATA DME THAT THE FMC FIX POS WAS IN ERROR BY 6 MI. BY THE TIME WE MADE 1 LOOP OF THE PATTERN, THE FMC HAD UPDATED AND CORRECTED ITS POS. THIS INCIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY VERIFYING POS USING RAW DATA IN A TIMELY MANNER. SEVERAL FACTORS CONTRIBUTED, THE LONG GND HOLD PROBABLY WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FMC POS ERROR (NO STATIONS TO UPDATE FROM). THERE WAS LIGHT TO MODERATE TURB. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 318131: WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD AS PUBLISHED AT A FIX THAT IS ON THE DEP BUT THE HOLDING PATTERN WAS NOT SHOWN ON THE DEP PLATE, IT WAS ON A LOW ALT CHART. CREW WORKLOAD WAS HIGH, AND NOTIFICATION OF HOLD TIME WAS SHORT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.