Unauthorized penetration of class B airspace.

Attributes
ACN	319540
Time
Date	199510
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	0001 To 0600
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : lga airport : teb
State Reference	NY
Altitude	msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 4500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : n90
Operator	common carrier : air taxi
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 135
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Flight Plan	None
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air taxi
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 1850 flight time type : 100
ASRS Report	319540
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air taxi
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 800 flight time type : 40
ASRS Report	319749
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

During a far part 135 flight in VFR conditions, from alb to teb at 4500 ft MSL, we contacted ny approach control at 10 DME north of the kingston VOR. While in radar contact we switched to the next ny controller. At approximately 20 mi northeast of teb we asked for a descent into teb. After 3 attempts, the controller acknowledged our request for descent with VFR altitude at our discretion. 1 min after starting our descent the controller asked if we were planning to remain clear of the class B airspace. We replied no. He then asked if we were already cleared into the airspace as well as what our last controller frequency was. We replied we were unsure. He then replied that he would check with the controller on 126.8, if he had cleared us. However, this was not the frequency we were talking on. He replied that the controller had not cleared us and that we should increase our descent rate because we were in the class B airspace. I feel that the class B penetration resulted from the lack of communication between the 2 ny controllers, due to the fact that he was uncertain of who we talked to and if we were cleared. Also, he knew our exact position and altitude at all times while he was trying to find out. He saw our track and knew our intentions and watched us fly into the airspace, without warning on his part.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: UNAUTH PENETRATION OF CLASS B AIRSPACE.

Narrative: DURING A FAR PART 135 FLT IN VFR CONDITIONS, FROM ALB TO TEB AT 4500 FT MSL, WE CONTACTED NY APCH CTL AT 10 DME N OF THE KINGSTON VOR. WHILE IN RADAR CONTACT WE SWITCHED TO THE NEXT NY CTLR. AT APPROX 20 MI NE OF TEB WE ASKED FOR A DSCNT INTO TEB. AFTER 3 ATTEMPTS, THE CTLR ACKNOWLEDGED OUR REQUEST FOR DSCNT WITH VFR ALT AT OUR DISCRETION. 1 MIN AFTER STARTING OUR DSCNT THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WERE PLANNING TO REMAIN CLR OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE. WE REPLIED NO. HE THEN ASKED IF WE WERE ALREADY CLRED INTO THE AIRSPACE AS WELL AS WHAT OUR LAST CTLR FREQ WAS. WE REPLIED WE WERE UNSURE. HE THEN REPLIED THAT HE WOULD CHK WITH THE CTLR ON 126.8, IF HE HAD CLRED US. HOWEVER, THIS WAS NOT THE FREQ WE WERE TALKING ON. HE REPLIED THAT THE CTLR HAD NOT CLRED US AND THAT WE SHOULD INCREASE OUR DSCNT RATE BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE CLASS B AIRSPACE. I FEEL THAT THE CLASS B PENETRATION RESULTED FROM THE LACK OF COM BTWN THE 2 NY CTLRS, DUE TO THE FACT THAT HE WAS UNCERTAIN OF WHO WE TALKED TO AND IF WE WERE CLRED. ALSO, HE KNEW OUR EXACT POS AND ALT AT ALL TIMES WHILE HE WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT. HE SAW OUR TRACK AND KNEW OUR INTENTIONS AND WATCHED US FLY INTO THE AIRSPACE, WITHOUT WARNING ON HIS PART.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.