Narrative:

I was a crew member of an airplane that was put into a very dangerous position by having received a clearance from the tower to cross runway 25R, after holding short of runway 25R for a brief time. We were never advised of an MD11 taxiing on the parallel runway, taxiway B, heading west. The MD11 was taxiing at a high rate of speed, and fortunately, we were taxiing at below average taxi speed. The captain and I saw the MD11 at approximately the same instant. At the time, I was trying to call ground, but the frequency was busy with chatter. A few seconds later, I was able to key the microphone and my first transmission was that we were 'clearing' runway 25R, but what about the MD11 and are you talking to him. The ground controller's response was 'I've tried to call him a couple of times, but no response.' since the situation had startled me, I remarked 'that does us a lot of good because if we had crossed the runway as our clearance read, the MD11 would have hit us.' with this, the ground controller replied that we are to hold short of taxiway B until we have a clearance from ground control. I told him our clearance was to cross the runway, and if we hold short of taxiway B, we will leave half of our airplane hanging out on an active runway we are supposed to taxi clear of, according to the last clearance received. We decided to take this point up on the telephone. When I called the tower approximately 10 mins after we blocked in, their response was more than a little surprising, mr BBB idented himself as the supervisor and he began to take the stance of claiming we had taxied onto taxiway B without a clearance from ground control. I told him if we had done this then the MD11 would have hit us. He then focused on the point, as I did, about a 'clearance' to cross runway 25R. My understanding is if you are cleared to cross the runway, then you are cleared to cross the runway and not block that runway with any part of your aircraft. Mr BBB's argument was just the opposite. He said, 'here in lax, we do things differently, and you are in violation of taxiing without a clearance if you taxi onto taxiway B, even if you leave half of your aircraft hanging out on the runway.' if, in fact this is lax tower's interpretation of this clearance I feel this is a great potential for causing an accident. Another major factor to this incident was the air carrier MD11 was coming from their maintenance area and was being taxied by a mechanic. This may possibly explain why he didn't respond to ground controller's calls, because mechanics have been known not to be as cognizant of the radio calls from controllers. Also the fact is this mechanic was taxiing the airplane at a speed at least 3-4 times faster than a safe taxi speed at this busy airport. I recommend a 'clearance' to cross a runway at lax needs to be clarified to the industry. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: contacted lax ATCT regarding crossing and taxiing procedures. A specialist advised that a clearance to cross runway 25R does not automatically allow a flight to proceed onto taxiway B. Local control will coordinate with ground control and then advise the flight to turn left/right onto taxiway B. If you do not receive these instructions, you are to hold short of taxiway B even though your tail section may be on the runway. Lax ATCT says there are hold lines on the txwys leading onto taxiway B. However, no notations are made on the airport diagram and no hold lines are shown on any of the high speed turn-offs prior to taxiway B. Local control is supposedly aware of the tail intrusion and the runway is not to be used until the flight is clear of the runway. Analyst contends that is a questionable procedure considering how busy local and ground control are.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CONFUSING TAXI CLRNC. RPTR CLRED TO CROSS ACTIVE RWY BY LCL CTL AND ALLEGEDLY NOT TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF PARALLEL TXWY. FAST TAXIING WDB ON PARALLEL WAS NOT IN CONTACT WITH GND CTL AND RPTR STATES THEY CAME CLOSE TO COLLIDING.

Narrative: I WAS A CREW MEMBER OF AN AIRPLANE THAT WAS PUT INTO A VERY DANGEROUS POS BY HAVING RECEIVED A CLRNC FROM THE TWR TO CROSS RWY 25R, AFTER HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 25R FOR A BRIEF TIME. WE WERE NEVER ADVISED OF AN MD11 TAXIING ON THE PARALLEL RWY, TXWY B, HEADING W. THE MD11 WAS TAXIING AT A HIGH RATE OF SPD, AND FORTUNATELY, WE WERE TAXIING AT BELOW AVERAGE TAXI SPD. THE CAPT AND I SAW THE MD11 AT APPROX THE SAME INSTANT. AT THE TIME, I WAS TRYING TO CALL GND, BUT THE FREQ WAS BUSY WITH CHATTER. A FEW SECONDS LATER, I WAS ABLE TO KEY THE MIKE AND MY FIRST XMISSION WAS THAT WE WERE 'CLRING' RWY 25R, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MD11 AND ARE YOU TALKING TO HIM. THE GND CTLR'S RESPONSE WAS 'I'VE TRIED TO CALL HIM A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT NO RESPONSE.' SINCE THE SIT HAD STARTLED ME, I REMARKED 'THAT DOES US A LOT OF GOOD BECAUSE IF WE HAD CROSSED THE RWY AS OUR CLRNC READ, THE MD11 WOULD HAVE HIT US.' WITH THIS, THE GND CTLR REPLIED THAT WE ARE TO HOLD SHORT OF TXWY B UNTIL WE HAVE A CLRNC FROM GND CTL. I TOLD HIM OUR CLRNC WAS TO CROSS THE RWY, AND IF WE HOLD SHORT OF TXWY B, WE WILL LEAVE HALF OF OUR AIRPLANE HANGING OUT ON AN ACTIVE RWY WE ARE SUPPOSED TO TAXI CLR OF, ACCORDING TO THE LAST CLRNC RECEIVED. WE DECIDED TO TAKE THIS POINT UP ON THE TELEPHONE. WHEN I CALLED THE TWR APPROX 10 MINS AFTER WE BLOCKED IN, THEIR RESPONSE WAS MORE THAN A LITTLE SURPRISING, MR BBB IDENTED HIMSELF AS THE SUPVR AND HE BEGAN TO TAKE THE STANCE OF CLAIMING WE HAD TAXIED ONTO TXWY B WITHOUT A CLRNC FROM GND CTL. I TOLD HIM IF WE HAD DONE THIS THEN THE MD11 WOULD HAVE HIT US. HE THEN FOCUSED ON THE POINT, AS I DID, ABOUT A 'CLRNC' TO CROSS RWY 25R. MY UNDERSTANDING IS IF YOU ARE CLRED TO CROSS THE RWY, THEN YOU ARE CLRED TO CROSS THE RWY AND NOT BLOCK THAT RWY WITH ANY PART OF YOUR ACFT. MR BBB'S ARGUMENT WAS JUST THE OPPOSITE. HE SAID, 'HERE IN LAX, WE DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY, AND YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF TAXIING WITHOUT A CLRNC IF YOU TAXI ONTO TXWY B, EVEN IF YOU LEAVE HALF OF YOUR ACFT HANGING OUT ON THE RWY.' IF, IN FACT THIS IS LAX TWR'S INTERP OF THIS CLRNC I FEEL THIS IS A GREAT POTENTIAL FOR CAUSING AN ACCIDENT. ANOTHER MAJOR FACTOR TO THIS INCIDENT WAS THE ACR MD11 WAS COMING FROM THEIR MAINT AREA AND WAS BEING TAXIED BY A MECH. THIS MAY POSSIBLY EXPLAIN WHY HE DIDN'T RESPOND TO GND CTLR'S CALLS, BECAUSE MECHS HAVE BEEN KNOWN NOT TO BE AS COGNIZANT OF THE RADIO CALLS FROM CTLRS. ALSO THE FACT IS THIS MECH WAS TAXIING THE AIRPLANE AT A SPD AT LEAST 3-4 TIMES FASTER THAN A SAFE TAXI SPD AT THIS BUSY ARPT. I RECOMMEND A 'CLRNC' TO CROSS A RWY AT LAX NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED TO THE INDUSTRY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: CONTACTED LAX ATCT REGARDING XING AND TAXIING PROCS. A SPECIALIST ADVISED THAT A CLRNC TO CROSS RWY 25R DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY ALLOW A FLT TO PROCEED ONTO TXWY B. LCL CTL WILL COORDINATE WITH GND CTL AND THEN ADVISE THE FLT TO TURN L/R ONTO TXWY B. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE THESE INSTRUCTIONS, YOU ARE TO HOLD SHORT OF TXWY B EVEN THOUGH YOUR TAIL SECTION MAY BE ON THE RWY. LAX ATCT SAYS THERE ARE HOLD LINES ON THE TXWYS LEADING ONTO TXWY B. HOWEVER, NO NOTATIONS ARE MADE ON THE ARPT DIAGRAM AND NO HOLD LINES ARE SHOWN ON ANY OF THE HIGH SPD TURN-OFFS PRIOR TO TXWY B. LCL CTL IS SUPPOSEDLY AWARE OF THE TAIL INTRUSION AND THE RWY IS NOT TO BE USED UNTIL THE FLT IS CLR OF THE RWY. ANALYST CONTENDS THAT IS A QUESTIONABLE PROC CONSIDERING HOW BUSY LCL AND GND CTL ARE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.