37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 344890 |
Time | |
Date | 199608 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : orl |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 16000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx tracon : mco tracon : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 450 |
ASRS Report | 344890 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : far non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Climbing out of mco 7-8 mi behind MD80, departure control told us both 'to go between the 2 WX cells to intercept the airway.' (two level 2-3 thunderstorms, both clearly visible with a very small clear area between them, 1/4 mi.) we had been restr to 250 KTS. As we started between the 2 cells we were given normal speed and contact ZJX. Coming up on ZJX, center finds out the MD80 is still at 250 KTS. He tells him to maintain 15000 ft, we are going through 16000 ft at 300 KTS. Center says turn 90 degree left which I reply, 'unable' as we are right between these 2 cells that we were cleared through on purpose. Again he says turn left 90 degrees, I say 'unable' although we start that way as we could. He says 'roger understand you are using your emergency authority/authorized.' this was a total cop-out and a cover my ass statement on his part. He had many other options to separate the traffic, but gave up and put it all on my shoulders after their controller put us in the situation. There was never a loss of separation or TCASII advisory. The MD80 was clear of the WX and could have turned either way, as we did moments after clearing the WX. Either they need more separation between departures or they need to fire incompetent controllers who are only out to cover their butt! No coordination between center and departure at all!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR B767 FLC ACCUSES AN ARTCC RADAR CTLR OF ATTEMPTING TO IMPROPERLY PLACE THE BLAME ON THE FLC FOR A POTENTIAL LOSS OF SEPARATION WITH A PRECEDING MD80. THE FLC REFUSED A TURN BECAUSE OF TSTM ACTIVITY ON EACH SIDE OF THEM.
Narrative: CLBING OUT OF MCO 7-8 MI BEHIND MD80, DEP CTL TOLD US BOTH 'TO GO BTWN THE 2 WX CELLS TO INTERCEPT THE AIRWAY.' (TWO LEVEL 2-3 TSTMS, BOTH CLRLY VISIBLE WITH A VERY SMALL CLR AREA BTWN THEM, 1/4 MI.) WE HAD BEEN RESTR TO 250 KTS. AS WE STARTED BTWN THE 2 CELLS WE WERE GIVEN NORMAL SPD AND CONTACT ZJX. COMING UP ON ZJX, CTR FINDS OUT THE MD80 IS STILL AT 250 KTS. HE TELLS HIM TO MAINTAIN 15000 FT, WE ARE GOING THROUGH 16000 FT AT 300 KTS. CTR SAYS TURN 90 DEG L WHICH I REPLY, 'UNABLE' AS WE ARE RIGHT BTWN THESE 2 CELLS THAT WE WERE CLRED THROUGH ON PURPOSE. AGAIN HE SAYS TURN L 90 DEGS, I SAY 'UNABLE' ALTHOUGH WE START THAT WAY AS WE COULD. HE SAYS 'ROGER UNDERSTAND YOU ARE USING YOUR EMER AUTH.' THIS WAS A TOTAL COP-OUT AND A COVER MY ASS STATEMENT ON HIS PART. HE HAD MANY OTHER OPTIONS TO SEPARATE THE TFC, BUT GAVE UP AND PUT IT ALL ON MY SHOULDERS AFTER THEIR CTLR PUT US IN THE SIT. THERE WAS NEVER A LOSS OF SEPARATION OR TCASII ADVISORY. THE MD80 WAS CLR OF THE WX AND COULD HAVE TURNED EITHER WAY, AS WE DID MOMENTS AFTER CLRING THE WX. EITHER THEY NEED MORE SEPARATION BTWN DEPS OR THEY NEED TO FIRE INCOMPETENT CTLRS WHO ARE ONLY OUT TO COVER THEIR BUTT! NO COORD BTWN CTR AND DEP AT ALL!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.