37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 351720 |
Time | |
Date | 199610 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : crl airport : dtw |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dtw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 6700 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 351720 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were on the STAR and given a crossing restr at 12000 ft MSL. The captain, who was flying, started the descent. I noticed that we would not meet the crossing restr if the captain maintained our normal descent profile. However, I knew we could make the restr if the flight spoilers were deployed and the rate of descent increased. I decided to say nothing because we still had time to make the restr and I thought that the captain might have a plan to make the restr. At this time, we were given a frequency handoff to approach control. When we checked on with approach control, they assigned us a heading for vectors to the airport. Since the assigned heading took us off the STAR, the crossing restr no longer applied. The captain maintained the same rate of descent on our new heading and I figured that we would have missed our restr by 1500-2000 ft. I know that I should have said something about our rate of descent immediately when I determined that we would be high at our current rate of descent. However, I have flown with this captain often and have become accustomed to him just barely making every crossing restr with no room to spare. This was a good learning experience for me because I let my past experience with this captain prevent me from saying something early in the descent and I feel one of these days when I do say something, it may be too late to make the restr. Although, if I do speak up early, I will be questioning this captain's rate of descent in at least 50 percent of his crossing restrs. I will have to find a tactful way of discussing every crossing restr and the rate of descent necessary to meet it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LATE DSCNT BY A DC9 WOULD HAVE MISSED AN ALT XING RESTR HAD THEY NOT BEEN VECTORED OFF THE STAR.
Narrative: WE WERE ON THE STAR AND GIVEN A XING RESTR AT 12000 FT MSL. THE CAPT, WHO WAS FLYING, STARTED THE DSCNT. I NOTICED THAT WE WOULD NOT MEET THE XING RESTR IF THE CAPT MAINTAINED OUR NORMAL DSCNT PROFILE. HOWEVER, I KNEW WE COULD MAKE THE RESTR IF THE FLT SPOILERS WERE DEPLOYED AND THE RATE OF DSCNT INCREASED. I DECIDED TO SAY NOTHING BECAUSE WE STILL HAD TIME TO MAKE THE RESTR AND I THOUGHT THAT THE CAPT MIGHT HAVE A PLAN TO MAKE THE RESTR. AT THIS TIME, WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ HDOF TO APCH CTL. WHEN WE CHKED ON WITH APCH CTL, THEY ASSIGNED US A HDG FOR VECTORS TO THE ARPT. SINCE THE ASSIGNED HDG TOOK US OFF THE STAR, THE XING RESTR NO LONGER APPLIED. THE CAPT MAINTAINED THE SAME RATE OF DSCNT ON OUR NEW HDG AND I FIGURED THAT WE WOULD HAVE MISSED OUR RESTR BY 1500-2000 FT. I KNOW THAT I SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT OUR RATE OF DSCNT IMMEDIATELY WHEN I DETERMINED THAT WE WOULD BE HIGH AT OUR CURRENT RATE OF DSCNT. HOWEVER, I HAVE FLOWN WITH THIS CAPT OFTEN AND HAVE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO HIM JUST BARELY MAKING EVERY XING RESTR WITH NO ROOM TO SPARE. THIS WAS A GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME BECAUSE I LET MY PAST EXPERIENCE WITH THIS CAPT PREVENT ME FROM SAYING SOMETHING EARLY IN THE DSCNT AND I FEEL ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN I DO SAY SOMETHING, IT MAY BE TOO LATE TO MAKE THE RESTR. ALTHOUGH, IF I DO SPEAK UP EARLY, I WILL BE QUESTIONING THIS CAPT'S RATE OF DSCNT IN AT LEAST 50 PERCENT OF HIS XING RESTRS. I WILL HAVE TO FIND A TACTFUL WAY OF DISCUSSING EVERY XING RESTR AND THE RATE OF DSCNT NECESSARY TO MEET IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.