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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Attributes | |
ACN | 364414 |
Time | |
Date | 199703 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sna |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sna |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-90 Series (DC-9-90) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure : noise abatement departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Twin Beech 18 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 9500 flight time type : 2450 |
ASRS Report | 364414 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 2250 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were cleared for takeoff at sna runway 19R. At 800 ft we did the power cut-back. Just as the power stabilized, approximately 1100 ft, tower said 'disregard the noise abatement procedure and continue your climb -- we will do the paperwork.' just as they finished saying that our TCASII sounded a 'climb, climb, climb,' RA. We both looked and saw a BE18 at our 12:30 O'clock moving from our right to left at our altitude and about 1/4 - 1/2 mi. We pushed the power up to climb power and turned further right to clear the traffic. At this point tower gave us more instructions but they were drowned out by the TCASII. Clear of the conflict we contacted socal departure and resumed the SID (mussel 5). In my opinion, if we had flown the SID with the power cut-back and made the 175 degree turn at 1.0 DME we would have flown right into the BE18. Why weren't we made aware of the traffic earlier and why wasn't our departure delayed to allow him to clear our departure area? Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that the local controller told them to disregard the noise abatement just before they received the TCASII RA climb command. Reporter said they made a slight evasive right turn to go behind and above the BE18 which would have otherwise passed in front and below them without the turn. Reporter alleges the company safety officer made a call to the facility and received an apology but the facility was noncommittal about the incident. Reporter indicated the tower will sometimes add 'the coast is clear' when issuing takeoff clrncs to some particular airlines. Reporter has not received that type of clearance for any of the times he has departed sna.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD90 FLC RPT NMAC WITH PVT BE18 DURING NOISE ABATEMENT SID CLB. FLC WERE TOLD TO DISREGARD THE NOISE ABATEMENT PROC AND CONTINUE CLB. FLC RECEIVED TCASII RA CLB COMMAND AND VISUALLY SIGHTED THE BE18 MOVING R TO L. NO TFC INFO HAD BEEN ISSUED BY THE LCL CTLR.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF AT SNA RWY 19R. AT 800 FT WE DID THE PWR CUT-BACK. JUST AS THE PWR STABILIZED, APPROX 1100 FT, TWR SAID 'DISREGARD THE NOISE ABATEMENT PROC AND CONTINUE YOUR CLB -- WE WILL DO THE PAPERWORK.' JUST AS THEY FINISHED SAYING THAT OUR TCASII SOUNDED A 'CLB, CLB, CLB,' RA. WE BOTH LOOKED AND SAW A BE18 AT OUR 12:30 O'CLOCK MOVING FROM OUR R TO L AT OUR ALT AND ABOUT 1/4 - 1/2 MI. WE PUSHED THE PWR UP TO CLB PWR AND TURNED FURTHER R TO CLR THE TFC. AT THIS POINT TWR GAVE US MORE INSTRUCTIONS BUT THEY WERE DROWNED OUT BY THE TCASII. CLR OF THE CONFLICT WE CONTACTED SOCAL DEP AND RESUMED THE SID (MUSSEL 5). IN MY OPINION, IF WE HAD FLOWN THE SID WITH THE PWR CUT-BACK AND MADE THE 175 DEG TURN AT 1.0 DME WE WOULD HAVE FLOWN RIGHT INTO THE BE18. WHY WEREN'T WE MADE AWARE OF THE TFC EARLIER AND WHY WASN'T OUR DEP DELAYED TO ALLOW HIM TO CLR OUR DEP AREA? CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT THE LCL CTLR TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD THE NOISE ABATEMENT JUST BEFORE THEY RECEIVED THE TCASII RA CLB COMMAND. RPTR SAID THEY MADE A SLIGHT EVASIVE R TURN TO GO BEHIND AND ABOVE THE BE18 WHICH WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE PASSED IN FRONT AND BELOW THEM WITHOUT THE TURN. RPTR ALLEGES THE COMPANY SAFETY OFFICER MADE A CALL TO THE FACILITY AND RECEIVED AN APOLOGY BUT THE FACILITY WAS NONCOMMITTAL ABOUT THE INCIDENT. RPTR INDICATED THE TWR WILL SOMETIMES ADD 'THE COAST IS CLR' WHEN ISSUING TKOF CLRNCS TO SOME PARTICULAR AIRLINES. RPTR HAS NOT RECEIVED THAT TYPE OF CLRNC FOR ANY OF THE TIMES HE HAS DEPARTED SNA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.