37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 364789 |
Time | |
Date | 199703 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pdz airport : ont |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4600 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ont |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 9000 |
ASRS Report | 364789 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 77 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 77 |
ASRS Report | 365031 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 600 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was flying with a brand new first officer (3RD trip). We were cleared to fly the 'ziggy' arrival into ont. I instructed the first officer to start the right turn to the inbound radial, but he was confused while using the LNAV function of the autoplt. I started the right turn for him and at about the same time we received a TCASII alert and the approach controller advised us we had missed the turn onto the course. He had a perturbed sound in his voice (as expected). At that moment we got the RA alert to 'descend.' he then canceled our approach runway 26R clearance and instructed us to maintain 5000 ft. We had been cleared to 4000 ft so we were descending almost 2600 FPM. At that moment I was now more concerned about missing the traffic that, according to our TCASII, was indicating 5000 ft I don't know why the controller assigned us the same altitude, that plainly could have caused an accident. The controller never did acknowledge the fact that the single engine was even there! Did he know?? If so, why didn't he issue it as advisory traffic?? If so, why did he issue an altitude that would cause more conflict? We descended down to about 4600 ft MSL to comply with the RA alert. I told the controller we had traffic to avoid, and all he said was, 'well you're 4 mi south of the arrival!' he still did not make mention of that aircraft. We rejoined the localizer and landed uneventfully. I will be more aggressive in taking the aircraft sooner in the future. Supplemental information from acn 365031: we received a TA/RA and visually acquired a C182RG at 2 O'clock position.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-300 GOT A TCASII RA WITH A C182RG WHILE FLYING S OF THE ASSIGNED RTE. THE CTLR WAS MORE CONCERNED WITH GETTING THE B737 BACK ON COURSE THAN WITH THE CONFLICT. B737 DSNDED BELOW ASSIGNED ALT TO SATISFY THE RA.
Narrative: I WAS FLYING WITH A BRAND NEW FO (3RD TRIP). WE WERE CLRED TO FLY THE 'ZIGGY' ARR INTO ONT. I INSTRUCTED THE FO TO START THE R TURN TO THE INBOUND RADIAL, BUT HE WAS CONFUSED WHILE USING THE LNAV FUNCTION OF THE AUTOPLT. I STARTED THE R TURN FOR HIM AND AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME WE RECEIVED A TCASII ALERT AND THE APCH CTLR ADVISED US WE HAD MISSED THE TURN ONTO THE COURSE. HE HAD A PERTURBED SOUND IN HIS VOICE (AS EXPECTED). AT THAT MOMENT WE GOT THE RA ALERT TO 'DSND.' HE THEN CANCELED OUR APCH RWY 26R CLRNC AND INSTRUCTED US TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT. WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO 4000 FT SO WE WERE DSNDING ALMOST 2600 FPM. AT THAT MOMENT I WAS NOW MORE CONCERNED ABOUT MISSING THE TFC THAT, ACCORDING TO OUR TCASII, WAS INDICATING 5000 FT I DON'T KNOW WHY THE CTLR ASSIGNED US THE SAME ALT, THAT PLAINLY COULD HAVE CAUSED AN ACCIDENT. THE CTLR NEVER DID ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT THE SINGLE ENG WAS EVEN THERE! DID HE KNOW?? IF SO, WHY DIDN'T HE ISSUE IT AS ADVISORY TFC?? IF SO, WHY DID HE ISSUE AN ALT THAT WOULD CAUSE MORE CONFLICT? WE DSNDED DOWN TO ABOUT 4600 FT MSL TO COMPLY WITH THE RA ALERT. I TOLD THE CTLR WE HAD TFC TO AVOID, AND ALL HE SAID WAS, 'WELL YOU'RE 4 MI S OF THE ARR!' HE STILL DID NOT MAKE MENTION OF THAT ACFT. WE REJOINED THE LOC AND LANDED UNEVENTFULLY. I WILL BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN TAKING THE ACFT SOONER IN THE FUTURE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 365031: WE RECEIVED A TA/RA AND VISUALLY ACQUIRED A C182RG AT 2 O'CLOCK POS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.