37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 368190 |
Time | |
Date | 199705 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cos |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 12500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cos |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | departure other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 368190 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 2200 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 368448 |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : exit altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Departed cos runway 17L, left turn to nnw vector, climb to 12000 ft. First officer flying, leveled at 12000 ft, VMC en route den. Vicinity of cos VOR captain asks cos departure controller about ssebound traffic on CRT TCASII display. Indicated 11900 ft on course to meet ours. Target became TA when controller responded that he now sees the target on radar and to turn 40 degrees right. TCASII RA now commands 'climb' which first officer initiates while turning. ATC was not talking to second aircraft which was never idented. ATC suspects it may have been military trainer. Unable to confirm. Suggest reminder to military trainers to communicate with ATC, fly VFR altitudes. Also suggested to company to pursue alternate routing further east of military practice area. Without TCASII, could have been a disaster. Supplemental information from acn 368448: flew north then northwest (340 degree heading) up to 12000 ft MSL in VMC. Immediately after the encounter, cos departure instructs direct fqf VOR and hands us off to den approach. First opportunity to inquire about incident was 4 hours later in dtw (due to 35 min turn in den). Captain called cos tower and spoke with the supervisor. Captain was told shift change occurred and working controller was not available. Supervisor said he would review the tape. Captain and supervisor spoke at captain's home the evening after the trip. Supervisor told captain that target was not controled or idented by cos or den. His best guess of target was possibly a training flight from military. Post encounter considerations: our primary concern was to identify the problem and ensure avoidance of similar problem and potential disaster. Additional concerns include 1) why did the target not show up on cos departure radar screen until encounter started? And 2) if this was a military aircraft, why was it at an IFR altitude and in such close proximity to another aircraft? Captain suggestions are 1) have follow-up and communicate to cos and military to reinforce the need to communicate with ATC. 2) fly VFR altitudes when in VFR. 3) establish another air carrier route from cos to den, preferably further east and away from military institute and other front range air traffic. Note #1: NASA, TCASII encounter and fsap forms have been completed. Note #2: without TCASII, this likely would have been a midair.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-300 ACFT ON DEP HAD TCASII RA AND FLC TAKES EVASIVE ACTION. ATC QUESTIONED AND SEES TFC ON RADAR BUT UNIDENTED.
Narrative: DEPARTED COS RWY 17L, L TURN TO NNW VECTOR, CLB TO 12000 FT. FO FLYING, LEVELED AT 12000 FT, VMC ENRTE DEN. VICINITY OF COS VOR CAPT ASKS COS DEP CTLR ABOUT SSEBOUND TFC ON CRT TCASII DISPLAY. INDICATED 11900 FT ON COURSE TO MEET OURS. TARGET BECAME TA WHEN CTLR RESPONDED THAT HE NOW SEES THE TARGET ON RADAR AND TO TURN 40 DEGS R. TCASII RA NOW COMMANDS 'CLB' WHICH FO INITIATES WHILE TURNING. ATC WAS NOT TALKING TO SECOND ACFT WHICH WAS NEVER IDENTED. ATC SUSPECTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN MIL TRAINER. UNABLE TO CONFIRM. SUGGEST REMINDER TO MIL TRAINERS TO COMMUNICATE WITH ATC, FLY VFR ALTS. ALSO SUGGESTED TO COMPANY TO PURSUE ALTERNATE ROUTING FURTHER E OF MIL PRACTICE AREA. WITHOUT TCASII, COULD HAVE BEEN A DISASTER. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 368448: FLEW N THEN NW (340 DEG HDG) UP TO 12000 FT MSL IN VMC. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ENCOUNTER, COS DEP INSTRUCTS DIRECT FQF VOR AND HANDS US OFF TO DEN APCH. FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO INQUIRE ABOUT INCIDENT WAS 4 HRS LATER IN DTW (DUE TO 35 MIN TURN IN DEN). CAPT CALLED COS TWR AND SPOKE WITH THE SUPVR. CAPT WAS TOLD SHIFT CHANGE OCCURRED AND WORKING CTLR WAS NOT AVAILABLE. SUPVR SAID HE WOULD REVIEW THE TAPE. CAPT AND SUPVR SPOKE AT CAPT'S HOME THE EVENING AFTER THE TRIP. SUPVR TOLD CAPT THAT TARGET WAS NOT CTLED OR IDENTED BY COS OR DEN. HIS BEST GUESS OF TARGET WAS POSSIBLY A TRAINING FLT FROM MIL. POST ENCOUNTER CONSIDERATIONS: OUR PRIMARY CONCERN WAS TO IDENT THE PROB AND ENSURE AVOIDANCE OF SIMILAR PROB AND POTENTIAL DISASTER. ADDITIONAL CONCERNS INCLUDE 1) WHY DID THE TARGET NOT SHOW UP ON COS DEP RADAR SCREEN UNTIL ENCOUNTER STARTED? AND 2) IF THIS WAS A MIL ACFT, WHY WAS IT AT AN IFR ALT AND IN SUCH CLOSE PROX TO ANOTHER ACFT? CAPT SUGGESTIONS ARE 1) HAVE FOLLOW-UP AND COMMUNICATE TO COS AND MIL TO REINFORCE THE NEED TO COMMUNICATE WITH ATC. 2) FLY VFR ALTS WHEN IN VFR. 3) ESTABLISH ANOTHER ACR RTE FROM COS TO DEN, PREFERABLY FURTHER E AND AWAY FROM MIL INSTITUTE AND OTHER FRONT RANGE AIR TFC. NOTE #1: NASA, TCASII ENCOUNTER AND FSAP FORMS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. NOTE #2: WITHOUT TCASII, THIS LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN A MIDAIR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.