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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 376854 |
Time | |
Date | 199708 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 376854 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
ATC facility: ord tower. Location: ord 090 degree radial 5 NM. Flying from stl to ord, the ord ATIS advertised lahso operations to runway 27L/right and runway 22R. Upon initial checking with ord approach, we stated negative hold short. I believe we also told the arrival controller that we needed runway 27L full length also. We were cleared for the approach to runway 27R and instructed to contact the tower at the FAF. Ord tower cleared us to land and hold short on runway 32L. I stated, 'unable hold short' and waited for a reclrnc. The tower controller did not respond and I restated, 'air carrier cleared to land runway 27L full length.' the controller then cleared a B747 into position and hold on runway 32L and informed him that we would be holding short of his runway. I then stated, 'for the third time, air carrier requires full length.' the controller then stated, 'oh yeah, you're the guys that require the whole runway.' I informed we required it for safety purposes and he then instructed us to roll to the end after landing. I requested through ATC liaison and manager FAA ato-100 that the tapes be pulled for review. FAA immediately requested a copy of the tapes. FAA individual is the manager of ATC operations and procedures and lahso falls under his control. He acknowledged the controllers actions appeared improper and like the lga lahso problems of a week or so past, it appears some ATC personnel don't fully understand the program. This is submitted primarily for information since I believe FAA manager will personally take care of this incident.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: S80 FLC HAS PROB WITH ATC WHEN INDICATING THEY CANNOT ACCEPT THE LAHSO PROCS ON LNDG.
Narrative: ATC FACILITY: ORD TWR. LOCATION: ORD 090 DEG RADIAL 5 NM. FLYING FROM STL TO ORD, THE ORD ATIS ADVERTISED LAHSO OPS TO RWY 27L/R AND RWY 22R. UPON INITIAL CHKING WITH ORD APCH, WE STATED NEGATIVE HOLD SHORT. I BELIEVE WE ALSO TOLD THE ARR CTLR THAT WE NEEDED RWY 27L FULL LENGTH ALSO. WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH TO RWY 27R AND INSTRUCTED TO CONTACT THE TWR AT THE FAF. ORD TWR CLRED US TO LAND AND HOLD SHORT ON RWY 32L. I STATED, 'UNABLE HOLD SHORT' AND WAITED FOR A RECLRNC. THE TWR CTLR DID NOT RESPOND AND I RESTATED, 'ACR CLRED TO LAND RWY 27L FULL LENGTH.' THE CTLR THEN CLRED A B747 INTO POS AND HOLD ON RWY 32L AND INFORMED HIM THAT WE WOULD BE HOLDING SHORT OF HIS RWY. I THEN STATED, 'FOR THE THIRD TIME, ACR REQUIRES FULL LENGTH.' THE CTLR THEN STATED, 'OH YEAH, YOU'RE THE GUYS THAT REQUIRE THE WHOLE RWY.' I INFORMED WE REQUIRED IT FOR SAFETY PURPOSES AND HE THEN INSTRUCTED US TO ROLL TO THE END AFTER LNDG. I REQUESTED THROUGH ATC LIAISON AND MANAGER FAA ATO-100 THAT THE TAPES BE PULLED FOR REVIEW. FAA IMMEDIATELY REQUESTED A COPY OF THE TAPES. FAA INDIVIDUAL IS THE MGR OF ATC OPS AND PROCS AND LAHSO FALLS UNDER HIS CTL. HE ACKNOWLEDGED THE CTLRS ACTIONS APPEARED IMPROPER AND LIKE THE LGA LAHSO PROBS OF A WK OR SO PAST, IT APPEARS SOME ATC PERSONNEL DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND THE PROGRAM. THIS IS SUBMITTED PRIMARILY FOR INFO SINCE I BELIEVE FAA MGR WILL PERSONALLY TAKE CARE OF THIS INCIDENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.