37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 395433 |
Time | |
Date | 199803 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : yyc |
State Reference | AB |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 7300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : yyc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure other enroute airway : yyc |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 700 |
ASRS Report | 395433 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : second officer |
Qualification | other other : other pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 3800 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 395571 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I saw my first officer, who was flying, rapidly approaching our 7000 ft cleared altitude and called '7000 ft.' he hesitated a second and then firmly but smoothly arrested our climb and brought us back to 7000 ft overshooting it by just under 300 ft in the process. Contributing factors were concern over non standard and thus confusing wording used by tower when cleared onto runway, V12. 'Cleared to position and threshold' and slight delay in automatically switching to departure from tower which is not our usual habit pattern as one is supposed to do it without tower instruction at yyc. According to my first officer concerns and confusion over the tower's use of non standard wording were the main distractions and I can concur because all 3 of us were not totally sure what tower meant even after repeating 'cleared to position at threshold.' position and hold? Hold short? We weren't sure. If it had been low visibility we would have queried a third time before entering the runway. And then when in position on the runway he issued the same instruction to air carrier Y behind us. Both of us in position on the same runway? He's supposed to hold short and thus we incorrectly did not? Very confusing and concerning (and potentially dangerous). Yyc needs standard terminology.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FO OF AN LGT OVERSHOT ASSIGNED ALT DURING DEP CLB. FLC BLAME MISTAKE ON AN EARLIER NON STANDARD PHRASEOLOGY USED BY THE TWR CTLR FOR TAXIING INTO POS FOR TKOF.
Narrative: I SAW MY FO, WHO WAS FLYING, RAPIDLY APCHING OUR 7000 FT CLRED ALT AND CALLED '7000 FT.' HE HESITATED A SECOND AND THEN FIRMLY BUT SMOOTHLY ARRESTED OUR CLB AND BROUGHT US BACK TO 7000 FT OVERSHOOTING IT BY JUST UNDER 300 FT IN THE PROCESS. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS WERE CONCERN OVER NON STANDARD AND THUS CONFUSING WORDING USED BY TWR WHEN CLRED ONTO RWY, V12. 'CLRED TO POS AND THRESHOLD' AND SLIGHT DELAY IN AUTOMATICALLY SWITCHING TO DEP FROM TWR WHICH IS NOT OUR USUAL HABIT PATTERN AS ONE IS SUPPOSED TO DO IT WITHOUT TWR INSTRUCTION AT YYC. ACCORDING TO MY FO CONCERNS AND CONFUSION OVER THE TWR'S USE OF NON STANDARD WORDING WERE THE MAIN DISTRACTIONS AND I CAN CONCUR BECAUSE ALL 3 OF US WERE NOT TOTALLY SURE WHAT TWR MEANT EVEN AFTER REPEATING 'CLRED TO POS AT THRESHOLD.' POS AND HOLD? HOLD SHORT? WE WEREN'T SURE. IF IT HAD BEEN LOW VISIBILITY WE WOULD HAVE QUERIED A THIRD TIME BEFORE ENTERING THE RWY. AND THEN WHEN IN POS ON THE RWY HE ISSUED THE SAME INSTRUCTION TO ACR Y BEHIND US. BOTH OF US IN POS ON THE SAME RWY? HE'S SUPPOSED TO HOLD SHORT AND THUS WE INCORRECTLY DID NOT? VERY CONFUSING AND CONCERNING (AND POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS). YYC NEEDS STANDARD TERMINOLOGY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.